Writing Was Everthing

I agree, a rebuff is better than never knowing. I am feeling somewhat shell shocked from my recent adventures in the dating game...I seem to be a magnet for ambivalent, confused women. Am I wearing an invisible KICK ME sign?

Larry,
THere is something else to consider in my having contacted this man: a letter from a woman that allows him to know that she finds him attractive, interesting and worthwhile (which of course is the subtext) might make his day...perhaps his week!

Look what you've just said: that you have been encountering ambivalent women. I am not ambivalent about this man. I may become ambivalent if I discover that our personalities don't mix well...but he looks to be close to my age, I find him "cute (as opposed to handsome)," he is well educated with an M.S. from a decent university and he is talented, having been a professional musician since 1970 and a professional potter for more than a decade. I know very little about his personality but he seems adequately socialized, modest (in the sense of lacking conceit), with at least a minimal sense of humor.

If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Also, what are you goals in finding a woman? Do you want marriage and a family; do you simply want a part-time relationship? do you want someone to live with? Maybe if the women you meet are ambivalent, perhaps, it is because deep down inside you are uncertain of what you want in a woman and in a relationship.

I have been going through some extraordinarily bad times which are so unbelievable I won't discuss them here. I have been depressed because of them and when this man made a point of sitting with me in December, I was not Little Mary Sunshine. I'm also a tad shy, which makes me a little tongue tied with people I don't know well.

I went on a few dates in the later fall and into early winter with men I encountered through the personals. One was intellectually my twin but physically no one I would get close to; another was still suffering the wounds of having been left by the woman he thought he would spend the rest of his life with; the last one was nice and although I thought him good looking, after two dates, I realized I just couldn't kiss this man.

Frankly, I'm more concerned that this man would be interested in exploring a relationship and I'm a little too depressed to give it my all.

Plainoldme, those are all good questions. I am 43. I was seeing a woman for 6 years--we broke up last summer. I would like a serious relationship, possibly leading to marriage if the stars are properly aligned. I don't need a casual fling or a frivolous liaison at this stage in my life. I'd prefer solitude to that. So no, I don't think I am ambivalent about what I want, but I do think the women I have been meeting are. Of course, they might not just like me in particular, which is possible. But in my experience the way you feel about dating has more to do with the way you feel about yourself than it does with who you meet. Take you--you sound pretty clear about yourself and this other guy. So go for it!

Larry,
Since you are just under a year out of a six-year relationship, perhaps you are not finished mourning the relationship. Even if things soured toward the end, which they usually do, a person still needs time for recovery. I mentioned a man I went to dinner with who is still hurt by the loss of his relationship. He said it was a year and a half since she broke it off against his will. They were together for 15 years and have a son. Endings just aren't easy and there are phases to those endings.

My ex-husband wouldn't move on a divorce for three years, then he wanted in 20 minutes. After we were divorced and he came to me for advice on using the personals, because he had heard I was doing the same. He hoped he would answer my ad! My former boyfriend continually calls. I told him I was interested in someone and that I didn't want to go out with him because it is a small world. The boyfriend has already delayed things with my object of attention: I really didn't want another situation to explain.

I think you simply need to do the things you enjoy. I know that sounds a tad hackneyed, but you want to meet a woman who enjoys the same things you do. When I have used the personals, I eliminated men who talk about sailing: I can't swim and I get seasick!

The personals, however, are backwards. You may have a great conversation with someone but might not like what you see. Physical attraction really does come first. Political campaigns, museums, lectures with coffee hours attached are good places for you to be.

Thanks for the advice, plain, but I'll stick to the personals. I was never much good at approaching total strangers in social situations.

Larry,
Perhaps, I should warn you that many women are leery of men who are more than 40 who have never been married. If that is your case, you should consider that a man who has always been single scares women off.

Also, women tend to be more responsive to men who are seeking women close to their own age, let's say five years either way. Men who want very much younger women turn all women off -- whether they are in their 20s, 30s or 40s.


For some reason, during the past year, I have been hit on by men who are 10 to 15 years younger than me and I won't give any of them the right time of day. I want a man three years on either side but that doesn't mean I would say know to someone older or younger than that limit.

Larry,
I really had to laugh because a personals service that I have discontinued, sent me a list of men I could email for free. Two were supposed to be my age: one looked about 20 years younger (old picture) while the other looked like something excavated from a mine!

I'm over 40 and have never been married...like 15% of the men in my age group according to the latest census. If in fact women are leery of men like us, they should ask themselves why a man who has been divorced is a better bet. All that a divorce means is you couldn't stay married to some other woman.

Thanks Larry, me too (40+, never married) - sometimes I think I'd be considered a real catch if I'd been married 3 times and had 10 kids running around who knows where. "Oh, he's such a great father . . ."

plainoldme<

It's easy to fantasize on a web forum. What you need, however, is action in the form of a letter to the gentleman. The art of letter writing may be dead, but you aren't.

I'll echo Lawrence Richette . . . go for it!

Thanks Larry BS...maybe you and I should start a club "Over 40, straight, and never married!"

Larry BS: Do you think the fact that we are both named Larry has anything to do with our single status???

That has to be the reason! And such a distinguished name too. I think we're about the only 40+ never married straights in this group. "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

Yes, The Larry Club, I'm ready for that.

You think we're the only 40+ never married straights on A2K? I doubt it, I doubt it. I just think we're the only ones we know about...

Why women are skittish about men over forty who were never married:
I entered into a relationship with a man who had never been married when he was 51. I felt because he had lived with two women -- one for about 18 months, the other for five years -- that he had made some sort of commitment.

You see, to a woman, a man who has never married, had never made a commitment.

There were many things that worked well in our relationship. We took the MyersBriggs personality test together and came out almost the same in all categories. We worked together for a time. We introduced each other to new things. And, it goes without saying, the sex was fabulous.

When we were about 6 months into the relationship, I said we should live together and he said too soon. I made the same statement a year later and he gave the same answer. I should have cut and run at that time but didn't.

A year later, he said that when his seasonal business closed in the fall for the year (as it always did) we would try to live together. I became angry because after three years, the word try should not have been spoken. Shades of Yoda!

Another year later, he said he would move in after the seasonal business began its hiatus in October. I waited patiently. In January, I reminded him of his promise. He said he was embarrassed by not having moved in and didn't know what to do about it.

The reality that he didn't love me hit hard. The fabulous sex waned as I withdrew and ended in the fifth year. I broke off in the sixth. In the seventh year, I met the potter and my ex-boyfriend -- at the sale because I introduced him to hand made ceramics -- put the verbal claim on me. We had an argument a week ago and I would like to think he will never call again, but I know that is not reality.

If I wanted a what I call a part-time relationship ... and there are people who are perfectly happy with having a partner that they see on weekends or take vacations with ... this man might have been fine. Might have been because there were a few other rought spots.

After the fourth year and again in the fifth as the sex was dying, I suggested we pursue one of two paths to correcting the situation ... that either we write a series of letters, hammering our what was wrong (when we talked, he lost his temper and the discussions went nowhere), or we go into conseling. He hates letter writing because he says, "You can't answer a letter." (Please, I have no desire to pursue this specious argument.) He also said we can't afford counseling. My feeling is that if he wanted to stay with me, we couldn't afford NOT to go into counseling.

My 25 y/o daughter says he did love me but there was that he was "too broken to make a commitment." I once suggested that we were opposites in at least one area: I wanted to live together without marrying and he wanted to marry without living together. He would actually hold up that fat mystery writer -- the one who created the Boston dectective Spenser -- and his wife as an example. I always said, "Propose someone I respect as a role model for my life."

His mother and his sisters liked me better than they liked his other girl friends and they, like my daughter, felt there was something dead inside him, particularly since the rest of the family had successful marriages.

It's easy to fantasize on a web forum. What you need, however, is action in the form of a letter to the gentleman. The art of letter writing may be dead, but you aren't.

No, I'm far from dead. Why else would I want to write to man! Particularly one who seems to be in good physical condition!


Do I feel that I did the wrong thing? Of course not!

Plainoldme, I am of course sorry that you had a bad experience with an over 40 man who had never been married. But he is just one man and he sounds quite difficult. You can't make sweeping generalizations about literally millions of American men, who have nothing in common with your man, based on your experience. Frankly it sounds to me like you hung in way too long, way past the point where common sense should have told you that you were never going to get what you wanted from him. If I were malicious I could easily fault your behavior as being just as neurotic as his. Someone tells you a thousand ways that he can't give you what you want, and you don't hear him? Is he really the only one at fault when things don't go your way?

First of all, the object of my machinations has emailed me.
Second, I wish women talked to me the way they talked to other women. When women get together and are in "sister mode,"letting their hair down, they usually have stories of regret about seeing a man who had nver been married. After my divorce, I told men that I wouldn't go out with them because they had never been married. Other women will simply decline dates or go on the next selection in the personals column.

Congrats for taking the initiative, plainoldme! Good luck.

Plainoldme, I still don't get why someone who has never been married is a worse bet than someone who has one or two disastrous marriages under his belt. And I still say you are generalizing on the basis of your own bad experience. I can't speak for Larry BS, but I personally find it offensive to be categorized by you as a loser in this way. Either cut it out or come up with some really intelligent arguments for your position--something you haven't done so far.