11
   

So we are back to the Cold War again?

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 10:15 am
@InfraBlue,
Personally, I value NATO and I value our European Allies. I would hate to see their selfishness destroy the Alliance. It will hurt us both.

The World Stage is not likely to remain as it is for another 400, 200, 100, or even 50 more years.

Change is accelerating at a breakneck pace.

I'm not particularly bearish on the US, but it would be somewhat foolish to assume that our global dominance will endure for many, many years to come. The primary reason is that this country is moving to the left. I don't like it and I would wish otherwise but it's the case. Eventually, socialists will gain more and more power and before too long the White House.

People will say we need to spend our great wealth on our people. Fair enough, but if we do we will not be able to spend it on all the things that make us the #1 Superpower.

Liberals love Socialist Europe, but will they maintain this love with money they need to spend on their supporters?

Meanwhile, China is making it perfectly clear that it wants to be the #1 Superpower, and given the fact that its autocratic leaders won't have to pander to voters through a democratic process, it's highly unlikely they will divert funds from the goal before we do.

Europe has already made the foolish bet that their way of life is sustainable over the long haul.

As the global circles contract, and as US demographics increasingly separate from Europe, Europe will find itself more and more isolated.

It's still possible to change this future just as there were times when it was possible to change the future that led to WWI and WWII, but short-sighted selfishness, alas, always wins out.

The only way Americans will rally to aid of an embattled Europe is if they feel confident about their own lot and their nation's power. Europe consistently supports US presidential candidates who will sap this confidence. It needs a Trump, not an Obama.

But really why should we care? Climate Change will destroy the world before any of this **** happens.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 10:18 am
@glitterbag,
What nonsense

Breaking a treaty that the other party is violating will prevent other nations from entering into treaties with us? If their entry is based on similar bad faith - good!

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 10:20 am
@glitterbag,
For the most part, Eastern Europe gets it because they suffered a whole lot more than its neighbors to the West.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 10:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - NATO allies are not expected to deploy more nuclear weapons in Europe in response to what the West says is a Russian breach of an arms control treaty, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said on Wednesday.

“I don’t foresee that European allies will deploy more nuclear weapons as a response,” he told a news conference.
reuters


Fine.

Again...it's not about Russia.

Frankly, I hope they refuse to as it will save us money.

Russian cruise missiles threaten Europe a whole lot more than they threaten the US. If you guys are OK with that threat...fine with me.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 10:40 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
if the mid-terms don’t break in favor of his enablers, that support will evaporate instantly.


not prepared to put money on the right not getting the vote out

I'd love it it there was at least a sense of checks and balances in the US but there seems to be no one really interested in / able to slow down the current insanity.

__

There is much to love about the US and its citizens. Not much to even like about its current government - and that there is any support for some of its recent actions forces me to rethink the country as a whole.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 11:33 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
For the most part, Eastern Europe gets it because they suffered a whole lot more than its neighbors to the West.

I'm sure that the countries in Central Europe and the Baltic States suffered as well.
https://i.imgur.com/ll7oV5i.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WGXOOeY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TpSfMbv.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 11:39 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Russian cruise missiles threaten Europe a whole lot more than they threaten the US. If you guys are OK with that threat...fine with me.
Correct.
But since the INF Treaty isn't about sea-launched missiles ...
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  5  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 12:12 pm
This was all preplanned in Helsinki.

Next up will be a destabilization or incursion by Russia on a Baltic state, lets say Montenegro for instance.
Of course Trumps response will be, it's not our business and without the US NATO will bottle it.

Putin is pulling all the strings here, Helsinki proved that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 12:26 pm
@eurocelticyankee,
eurocelticyankee wrote:
Next up will be a destabilization or incursion by Russia on a Baltic state, lets say Montenegro for instance.
Of course Trumps response will be, it's not our business and without the US NATO will bottle it.
Well, if Montenegro is a Baltic State ...

https://i.imgur.com/Wm2Fzya.jpg

Montenegro is a NATO country as are the Baltic States and the USA.
eurocelticyankee
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 12:32 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It's close enough and remember this is Trump we're dealing with, what does he care about NATO.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 12:45 pm
@eurocelticyankee,
Do you work for Ryanair?
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 12:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I tongue in cheek mentioned Montenegro because if you remember for a while there Trump and Fox went on a tangent ''why should our boys die for Montenegro, blah blah.''
Isn't that just Trumps MO, to blatantly throw it in your face and i think this was shortly after Helsinki.

Anyhow, the show goes on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exx0UpQoV1U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXoVv2cGRoI
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 02:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You're right.

Many of us rubes in the US tend to split Europe into West and East, so let's dispense with the geography and say the former Soviet conquests get it more than those nations who have remained free from foreign rule since Nazi Germany was defeated.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 02:43 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
...and that there is any support for some of its recent actions forces me to rethink the country as a whole.


Nice try at dancing away from your anti-Americanism, but you just couldn't resist this last bit.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 06:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Regarding today's feelings - I suppose, they are very similar to ours here.
The last I heard, Poland was asking us to deploy more of our weapons on their soil than we were willing to deploy.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 06:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
True. But I do like peace more.
Unfortunately I don't think Putin will allow us that option.

One alternative to a massive arms buildup would be to heat up the war in Ukraine by providing them with heavy weapons to defend themselves with. If Putin is too busy dealing with the fighting in Ukraine, he won't be planning an invasion of the EU.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 06:45 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Apparently oral doesn’t know that Poland was behind the Iron Curtain
Greater accuracy can be obtained by automatically assuming that I know everything about all subjects.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 07:59 pm
@oralloy,
Did you ever figure out what warrant was mentioned by the other member, mr. I have a huge brain stable genius guy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2018 09:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Okay.
But you notice that one third of Germany is covered by that, don't you?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2018 03:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Well of course.

The Soviets occupied "half" of Germany.

Your point?
0 Replies
 
 

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