A little something to read.

That's some crazy ****.

Hey, brother doth thou have a handout?

Compassion is the greed of the emotionally selfish that cannot feel superior without contributing to the decline of another human being. Feel no compassion for others, only that you have compassion for another's success such that you would want the same for oneself. Anything less is a decadent form of pity undeserving of both parties.

Gods that require proof of faith in the form of handouts to the human form representative of all that is worthless and banal of mankind are spiritual n'erdowells. Someone should pull their License to Practice Godliness and pass a Metaphysical Law banishing all of them to the wastelands and dumpsites of the destitute of being.

Personally, I would be embarrassed at best if that parable were a depiction of my God.
First, because we all know that the US Post Service employs the ranks of the Spawn of Satan and is the Portal to The All The Hells Below. So, a message from Jesus certainly couldn't have arrived through the Channels of Hell. Secondly, what inspiration is a God that takes the form of the most repulsive of humankind; the worthless, lazy, looting, hand out seeking, poor, uneducated, masses of fodder that should be terminated swiftly underfoot and heel of the more capable.

Honestly, if Jesus were here today, I suspect he would be smiting all those that won't work a hard days work for a decent wage and banish all to the Hells that take a government handout.

The only handout any man deserves is the one that precedes a handshake of congratulation on being accomplished and competent sufficient not to be a burden on the rest of mankind.

Katacquforeignletters,

I think the worst proof of a god is when its worshipers invent laws against heresy and sacriledge which are punishable by mortal authority, thus proving their god a paper lion beyond all doubt.

The God of my understanding is kind, empathic, and compassionate.

"Do not speak evil of one another, brothers. Whoever speaks evil of a brother or judges his brother speaks evil of (God) the law and judges the law. 6

If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge"-
James 4

Slander of a fellow Christian does not break just one commandment but makes mockery of the authority of law in general and therefore of God.

I am a firm believer in Jesus, however i try not to prove God exist because it is impossable. A local radio station i listen to is 88.7 RadioU and they always say that it is a Relationship, not religion. I believe that if you get caught up in religion and trying to prove God, you are wasting you time. A relationship ship with Jesus is the best thing.

Slander is one of many highly effective social tools and shouldn't be wasted on the undeserving. So I agree, don't waste your time slandering a Christian, there are much finer targets for such audible poisons. As well, if something were already mockery, pray tell, how much more of a mockery could one make it?

Little Bessie was nearly three years old. She was a good child, and not shallow, not frivolous, but meditative and thoughtful, and much given to thinking out the reasons of things and trying to make them harmonise with results. One day she said --

"Mamma, why is there so much pain and sorrow and suffering? What is it all for?"

It was an easy question, and mamma had no difficulty in answering it:

"It is for our good, my child. In His wisdom and mercy the Lord sends us these afflictions to discipline us and make us better."

"Is it He that sends them?"

"Yes."

"Does He send all of them, mamma?"

"Yes, dear, all of them. None of them comes by accident; He alone sends them, and always out of love for us, and to make us better."

"Isn't it strange!"

"Strange? Why, no, I have never thought of it in that way. I have not heard any one call it strange before. It has always seemed natural and right to me, and wise and most kindly and merciful."

"Who first thought of it like that, mamma? Was it you?"

"Oh, no, child, I was taught it."

"Who taught you so, mamma?"

"Why, really, I don't know -- I can't remember. My mother, I suppose; or the preacher. But it's a thing that everybody knows."

"Well, anyway, it does seem strange. Did He give Billy Norris the typhus?"

"Yes."

"What for?"

"Why, to discipline him and make him good."

"But he died, mamma, and so it couldn't make him good."

"Well, then, I suppose it was for some other reason. We know it was a good reason, whatever it was."

"What do you think it was, mamma?"

"Oh, you ask so many questions! I think; it was to discipline his parents."

"Well, then, it wasn't fair, mamma. Why should his life be taken away for their sake, when he wasn't doing anything?"

"Oh, I don't know! I only know it was for a good and wise and merciful reason."

"What reason, mamma?"

"I think -- I think -- well, it was a judgment; it was to punish them for some sin they had committed."

"But he was the one that was punished, mamma. Was that right?"

"Certainly, certainly. He does nothing that isn't right and wise and merciful. You can't understand these things now, dear, but when you are grown up you will understand them, and then you will see that they are just and wise."

After a pause:

"Did He make the roof fall in on the stranger that was trying to save the crippled old woman from the fire, mamma?"

"Yes, my child. Wait! Don't ask me why, because I don't know. I only know it was to discipline some one, or be a judgment upon somebody, or to show His power."

"That drunken man that stuck a pitchfork into Mrs. Welch's baby when -- "

"Never mind about it, you needn't go into particulars; it was as to discipline the child -- that much is certain, anyway."

"Mamma, Mr. Burgess said in his sermon that billions of little creatures are sent into us to give us cholera, and typhoid, and lockjaw, and more than a thousand other sicknesses and -- mamma, does He send them?"

"Oh, certainly, child, certainly. Of course."

"What for?"

"Oh, to discipline us! haven't I told you so, over and over again?"

"It's awful cruel, mamma! And silly! and if I -- "

"Hush, oh hush! do you want to bring the lightning?"

"You know the lightning did come last week, mamma, and struck the new church, and burnt it down. Was it to discipline the church?"

(Wearily). "Oh, I suppose so."

"But it killed a hog that wasn't doing anything. Was it to discipline the hog, mamma?"

"Dear child, don't you want to run out and play a while? If you would like to -- "

"Mama, only think! Mr. Hollister says there isn't a bird or fish or reptile or any other animal that hasn't got an enemy that Providence has sent to bite it and chase it and pester it, and kill it, and suck; its blood and discipline it and make it good and religious. Is that true, mother -- because if it is true, why did Mr. Hollister laugh at it?"

"That Hollister is a scandalous person, and I don't want you to listen to anything he says."

"Why, mamma, he is very interesting, and I think he tries to be good. He says the wasps catch spiders and cram them down into their nests in the ground -- alive, mamma! -- and there they live and suffer days and days and days, and the hungry little wasps chewing their legs and gnawing into their bellies all the time, to make them good and religious and praise God for His infinite mercies. I think Mr. Hollister is just lovely, and ever so kind; for when I asked him if he would treat a spider like that, he said he hoped to be damned if he would; and then he -- "

"My child! oh, do for goodness' sake -- "

"And mamma, he says the spider is appointed to catch the fly, and drive her fangs into his bowels, and suck and suck and suck his blood, to discipline him and make him a Christian; and whenever the fly buzzes his wings with the pain and misery of it, you can see by the spider's grateful eye that she is thanking the Giver of All Good for -- well, she's saving grace, as he says; and also, he -- "

"Oh, aren't you ever going to get tired chattering! If you want to go out and play -- "

"Mama, he says himself that all troubles and pains and miseries and rotten diseases and horrors and villainies are sent to us in mercy and kindness to discipline us; and he says it is the duty of every father and mother to help Providence, every way they can; and says they can't do it by just scolding and whipping, for that won't answer, it is weak and no good -- Providence's way is best, and it is every parent's duty and every person's duty to help discipline everybody, and cripple them and kill them, and starve them, and freeze them, and rot them with diseases, and lead them into murder and theft and dishonor and disgrace; and he says Providence's invention for disciplining us and the animals is the very brightest idea that ever was, and not even an idiot could get up anything shinier. Mamma, brother Eddie needs disciplining, right away: and I know where you can get the smallpox for him, and the itch, and the diphtheria, and bone-rot, and heart disease, and consumption, and -- Dear mamma, have you fainted! I will run and bring help! Now this comes of staying in town this hot weather."

Mark Twain

I can honestly say that the majority (more than 85%) of the suffering I have endured, in my life, were caused by me not doing the right thing, or by not exercising reasonable balanced judgement when making a decision.

My character defects have gotten me into long-term binds that were hard to undo. These choices were made by me and my unclear thinking.

The God of my understanding, dosen't make a list of people who he is going to kill or make suffer on a daily basis, he does allow us to have learning lessons. Everybody get's learning lessons, and we will keep getting them until we learn them.

I do believe he knows what is going to happen, he is all knowing, and he is there to help us when we suffer, he is also there when we are happy, and indifferent, always present.

I don't pray just when it's raining, I pray when the sun is shinning as well. He will help with everthing you ask for, he is all powerful.

Now why didn't Ruth take that poor man and woman back to live in her house where it was warm instead of leaving them on the street? A shower and some clothes from the local thrift shop would give them a better chance at finding jobs so they wouldn't have to beg for their next meal.

Why didn't she invite them to share the sandwiches with her and Jesus? At least with him you never have to worry about not having enough to go around, and there will be leftovers so you won't have to go hungry until your check arrives Monday.

Why not invite all of your friends and neighbors for a potluck dinner, which solves the problem of what to feed him? Wouldn't you want everyone you know to meet him and share the good news?

I don't know who makes up these stories, but they are as illogical as the religion that spawns them.

Prayer doesn't pay the rent. Prayer doesn't feed the kids. People need to get off their knees and stand on their own two feet. Passive praying is pointless. God helps those who help themselves.

Have you done this, or something similar? I have, with complete strangers, people I have never met, they needed a place to stay and I gave them one, for the amount of time that I could, and I also had food for them, I didn't have alot but they were welcome to all that I had.

Do you hold yourself to the same standards as you hold others?

Here is an interesting experiment. Hold your hand up and point a finger at your monitor, is there one finger pointing at the screen? How many fingers are pointing back at you? My guess is three.

It behooves everyone to take their own inventory instead of others. I've had to do this, in a very thourough manner. It required brutal honesty about myself. But it was worth it.

As you can no doubt tell, my comment wasn't directed towards people such as yourself. Merely those who try to force their religion on others by enforcing "their gods' will" by mortal means. Your suggestion would solve that problem should it be taken by all religious people... other problems it may or may not present are outside of the context of this thread.



I have not (though I always give food or money to those who ask if I can or call ambulances for people I find injured or help those I come across if I can)...

However the one christian in the entire world whom I do respect as a christian... is the pastor of a local church who regularly does this kind of thing. His hopitality, generosity and kindness is without bounds. He respects everyone he meets. Discusses his religion should it come up, but mostly keeps it off to the side.

I met him once while he was doing a presentation about his church at an expo (don't know if it's a common term but it's basically a big very open fair with lots of stalls each one where a different group demonstrates their services). He seemed nice but I got to know him later on when we were in the same writers group.

Despite my being an atheist, not only was I frequently invited to go to dinners at his house or spend an afternoon there with other people he'd invite but my boyfriend was always welcome as well. He was the very soul of hospitality. If all christians were like him... well, I'd still think their beliefs were stupid and illogical, but they would be a pleasure to assosciate with.



The question is whether you judge yourself by the same standards. There are those more moral than I, however if someone wishes to call themselves that moral then they will have to act accordingly.



Zero... my hand wasn't clenched into a fist. Think how many stupid analogies you can work into that



I take inventory of myself in accordance with my claims and desires. As I take inventory of others in accordance with their claims.

paulaj, yes, I have invited my friends and neighbors for potlucks, although I did not have a famous guest for them to meet.

I have shared my hotel room with a complete stranger who was stranded and offered other strangers a place to stay if they needed it.

No, I do not hold others to the high standards to which I hold myself. Each person must live their own life as they see fit.

Yes, I have taken a brutally honest self-inventory.

But what is the point of these questions, except to avoid responding to the points I raised about the inane fairy tale you posted?

"Terry wrote:
"paulaj, yes, I have invited my friends and neighbors for potlucks, although I did not have a famous guest for them to meet."

"I have shared my hotel room with a complete stranger who was stranded and offered other strangers a place to stay if they needed it."

During that time, you were the famous guest-

Do to others as you would have them do unto you
Luke 6:31
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Terry wrote:
"But what is the point of these questions, except to avoid responding to the points I raised about the inane fairy tale you posted?"

Do not neglect hospitality, for through it some have unknowingly entertained angels.
Hebrews 13:2