Just to pick a nit here, RexRed, - I believe you'll find your word "throughly" is naught but an archaic variant of the contemporary "thoroughly" - one and the same, just that one is discarded and dusty, the other is burnished by constant use. Sorta blows your hypothesis, I think.
Say, if ya don't mind my askin' - your avatar - is that a Joel Meyerowitz?
My avatar is original, (a photo I took in Maine) and I would like you to show me in any dictionary where through means thorough.
Very nice photo - I'll bet the full-size original is one to be proud of. I'd like to see it. Good job.
Now, on to other stuff -
You wrote: ... show me in any dictionary where through means thorough
Thats not what was at discussion, now, is it? I believe the reference specifically was to the equivalence of the words "throughly" and "thoroughly"
Unless I'm mistaken, you wrote:2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.
comment:
Notice the word
throughly(thru) not thoroughly.
Through and through and
throughly perfected.
You can wash your hands thoroughly but you cannot wash them
throughly .
Here ya go:
Quote:Dictionary.com
1 entry found for
throughly.
through·ly
adv. Archaic
Thoroughly.
Quote:Merriam-Webster OnLine
One entry found for
throughly.
through·ly
Pronunciation: 'thrü-lE
Function: adverb
archaic : in a thorough manner
Might 3 suffice, or would more be desired?
Fresco,
"positive" and "negatives" are value judgements that I'd like to avoid here ... at least until the discussion has time to more fully develope. Perhaps in a sense "purpose" does infer "conscious intentionality". Here, I think we can take a little broader view. When religion was born as our remote ancestors huddled shivering with anxiety in some prehistoric cave, they didn't probably think the purposes of their "religion" through ... but it did have useful functions, or it would never have lasted these hundred thousand years.
Timber,
I know your bake sale remark is intended offset some the weight and academic seriousness of Fresco's comments. However, bake sales do represent an important purpose in the continuation of religion.
Rex,
I'm afraid I don't get your point. Neither your quotation, nor your comment seems apropos to the discussion. I would like to hear your opinion(s) on the question, but you need to be much more clear to get through my meathead.
Asherman wrote: ... bake sales do represent an important purpose in the continuation of religion ...
Certainly. Good point. And consider that among the antecedents of religion, authority, and society istself no doubt was stewardship both of the clan's grain stores and its hearth.
A common and traditional Chinese greeting is, "have you eaten". The primary Roman religion was built around the hearth, and the family lares. The way we greet new neighbors is to bring them a pie, and what wake would be worthy of the name without a kitchen filled with casseroles? For years we were part of a Buddhist congregation in Los Angeles made up primarily of second and third generation Japanese. One of the primary annual get togethers consisted of pounding moche (a sort of pounded rice cake), and making thousands of tamales. Ah, the great melting pot.
The getting of food is fundamental to traditional human societies. Our modern ability to run down to the supermarket at anytime of day or season to pick up a gallon of milk, fruits imported half way around the world, a selection of meat and fresh fish, and a dozen different kinds of bread, causes many to forget how difficult getting nutritious foods were even a hundred years ago in the developed nations. Whew, generally I like to keep sentences short and easy to read, but that one got away from me. How many modern American children have ever seen cows being milked, or meat being slaughtered? "What kind of tree do corn flakes grow on, Grandpa?" Mazlow's hierachy of needs some how gets lost in the plenty that our civilization is able to provide. I'm afraid that many moderns would starve to death if left stranded on an island in the midst of plenty. Oh well, and so it goes in the immortal words of Kurt Vonnegut.
timberlandko wrote:Very nice photo - I'll bet the full-size original is one to be proud of. I'd like to see it. Good job.
Now, on to other stuff -
You wrote: ... show me in any dictionary where through means thorough
Thats not what was at discussion, now, is it? I believe the reference specifically was to the equivalence of the words "throughly" and "thoroughly"
Unless I'm mistaken, you wrote:2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.
comment:
Notice the word
throughly(thru) not thoroughly.
Through and through and
throughly perfected.
You can wash your hands thoroughly but you cannot wash them
throughly .
Here ya go:
Quote:Dictionary.com
1 entry found for
throughly.
through·ly
adv. Archaic
Thoroughly.
Quote:Merriam-Webster OnLine
One entry found for
throughly.
through·ly
Pronunciation: 'thrü-lE
Function: adverb
archaic : in a thorough manner
Might 3 suffice, or would more be desired?
Both forms thoroughly and throughly are used in the Bible so one can't be that archaic... If they both meant the same thing and having the same basic word structure I would think they would have adhered to one standard or the other of the word. Your logic is flawed... Considering they used two forms of the word in the same document then it is more than credible that they have different meanings...
The point is that "perfection" cannot be achieved on the outside but must first be obtained on the inside... I will assure you the verse is talking about perfection on the inside.
The greek word behind the word perfect is
artios and the greek word behind the word furnished is also a form of the word
artios. To be perfectly perfected through and through.
You can stick with your dictionary and I will stick to my Bible concordances which give me firm examples of these words in use from antiquities...
... and what does that have to do with our discussion of the purposes of religion?
Asherman wrote:... and what does that have to do with our discussion of the purposes of religion?
You asked the purpose of religion I gave my opinion?
You should have specified "Buddhism" if that was a limitation of the discussion...
You chose to scoff at my reply... which was not very Christian...
So I can see that this is a discussion I would rather have elsewhere...
Then I am told my knowledge of the english language is incorrect...
Well it has to do with me saving face...
I also thought "discussion" was not only one sided...
So my opinion of the purpose of religion...
What else would it be, so we can become imperfect and ignore the inside?
Asherman wrote:... and what does that have to do with our discussion of the purposes of religion?
What does perfection have to do with religion?
Wha .......????????
What opinion did you give? You give a bible quote that doesn't appear relevant, and then comment on it by parsing a word. How does that relate to the purposes of religion? The question hasn't to do with any particular religion, but with how religion serves society, or how society serves religion for that matter.
How is the discussion one sided? Folks give their ideas and opinions as to the purposes of religion. I'm interested in hearing what purposes we can come up with, and then to explore those purposes in greater detail. It seems to me a discussion that is highly relevant for people of all religious backgrounds whatever they might be.
And, whatever do you mean by, "So my opinion of the purpose of religion ... What else would it be, so we can become imperfect and ignore the inside?" Rex, you don't seem able to express yourself very well. If you aren't comfortable carrying on a mature discussion, then perhaps you should go elsewhere.
Asherman wrote:Wha .......????????
What opinion did you give? You give a bible quote that doesn't appear relevant, and then comment on it by parsing a word. How does that relate to the purposes of religion? The question hasn't to do with any particular religion, but with how religion serves society, or how society serves religion for that matter.
How is the discussion one sided? Folks give their ideas and opinions as to the purposes of religion. I'm interested in hearing what purposes we can come up with, and then to explore those purposes in greater detail. It seems to me a discussion that is highly relevant for people of all religious backgrounds whatever they might be.
And, whatever do you mean by, "So my opinion of the purpose of religion ... What else would it be, so we can become imperfect and ignore the inside?" Rex, you don't seem able to express yourself very well. If you aren't comfortable carrying on a mature discussion, then perhaps you should go elsewhere.
I will... now that I have been insulted...
"Wha .......????????"
do you do that to every bible verse?
If more people were in pursuit of Godly "perfection" the effect on society would be evident.
I am sometimes a man of few words but they have meaning if people are not, preoccupied...
I'm following along but can't think of an entirely unique purpose to add at this point.
Perhaps one purpose of religion (probably not a deliberate one) is to perpetuate itself.
Those religions lacking in this purpose would not survive very long.
That's not universal. Although the ones who have not followed this guideline haven't survived. There have been some groups who have sworn off sex and died out.
Here's my response after reading the first page. I believe the primary purpose of religion is to assure the human species that there is something beyond this life on earth. What happened early on in man's life was to question our purpose, and what was needed to organize some social order. Some of the leaders of the tribe knew that some rules needed to be established to 'control' the tribe, so they initiated edicts on what was permissable and what was not. People who did not follow the laws of the leader were put to death. Since there were no recorded history, the sons usually took over as ruler, and he in turn established new laws - and religions. This was passed on from generation to generation until the leadership family was established, and they took the title of emperor or king. Depending on the advancement of agriculture, they created ceremonies and sacrifices to the gods for good crops and/or rain. Once the laws and religion were established, and several generations lived under the same ruler-family, all were exposed to the religion and laws of the realm from parents to child. Many kings or emperors considered themselves as god, and expected the tribe members to honor them - under penalty of death. After several generations, it was a foregone conclusion that the citizens honored their kings, emperors, gods, and rituals - established over many centuries. When the modern age appeared with new modes of communication and transportation when information and travel became almost instantaneous, the need to remain isolated in the tribe disappeared. Although religion is an accident of birth - many follow the religion of their parents - many still attend services for the social intercourse and support they find in belonging. One of the overriding phenomenon of religion seems to be the hold it has on peoples intellect. It's my humble opinion that man is prewired for a need for some belief in theism.
Ahh at last something we can disagree about CI
I think we are pre-wired to believe what our parents told us (even if I didn't
) but it seems to me that an effort to override natural thought processes are required to have faith in gods.
Cicero,
I take it then that you pretty much agree with the purposes already given, and paraphrased as:
1. To instill a sense of community. Such communities perpetuate themselves by developing traditions, and traditions in turn strengthen the community.
2. To explain the mysterious. To explain and give meaning to the inexplicable forces of nature. Religions help us all deal with death, the ultimate mystery.
3. To influence the forces of nature.
4. To establish a basis for authority within the community.
4a. To scare people into good behavior, and encourage people to live in harmony with one another.
5. To help individuals move toward higher consciousness.
I also doubt that we hard-wired for religion. Religion and war have both been characteristic of human societies, but are they really genetic? I doubt that, though they both are deeply ingrained habits with us. I also believe that the primary religious themes were not "dictated" by tribal leaders, but were instead an expression of our ancestor's perceived needs. There were, I think good and sufficient purposes that religion served. If we can rediscover what those purposes might be, then we may come to a deeper understanding of the place religion plays in our lives. It may be, though I doubt it, that the original purposes of religion no longer prevail ... in which case perhaps religiosity is on the road to extinction. On the other hand, if there still exist valid purposes of religion, if religion still serves useful purposes, then religion is still a worthwhile element of our world.
Earl and Dauer,
I think both of you have made interesting points. All groups, like individuals have a strong survival instinct. The most peaceful and pacifistic person will lash out violently while being choked to death. Without doubt as thinking beings we can also override our instincts. There are some sects, like the Shakers, as Dauer points out, who have consciously chosen a path that led to their own extinction. The most conservative of the Jains follow practices that one might think should have led to their extinction, yet they still exist in small numbers.
I have been reading the interesting posts (and some of the distracting ones).
I am not sure if the purposes outlined cover this, or if the question is meant to address the supposed purposes versus the pragmatic(evolved) purposes.
Nevertheless, I wonder, practically speaking, that (organized) religion serves humans the purpose of "outsourcing" morality/critical thinking/codes of behavior, either because people are unable, and sometimes, more an more, they are unwilling to go through the motion of figuring it out on their own.
To be absolved from arriving at answers oneself, and buying a pre-packaged set of answers that approves/validates one's standing in the community, here or hereafter. This would appeal to the lazy gene as well as the herd instinct...
In this regard
Thank you gravy,
1. To instill a sense of community. Such communities perpetuate themselves by developing traditions, and traditions in turn strengthen the community.
2. To explain the mysterious. To explain and give meaning to the inexplicable forces of nature. Religions help us all deal with death, the ultimate mystery.
3. To influence the forces of nature.
4. To establish a basis for authority within the community.
4a. To scare people into good behavior, and encourage people to live in harmony with one another.
5. To help individuals move toward higher consciousness.
and
6. To provide a uniform moral/ethical standard for the community.
