Separation of Church and State?

The first Amendment has the Establishment Clause which says the government can't pass a law that favors one religion over another.

The term "Separation of Church and State" is a key to a pluralistic Democracy. Our country would lose its greatest strength with out this idea.

You are right that this term is not in the Constitution, but the founders of our country were well aware of this term and of its importance.



Now there is plenty of room for discussion and disagreement among patriotic Americans about where this line should be drawn. There are specific issues (i.e. proselytizing in public places and religious monuments) that honest people disagree with.

But the separation of church and state is a key to what it means to be American.

Thank you
Thank yo ebrown. I was putting out a baited hook to see who the knowledgeable ones were and it you knew where this term came from. Thank you for the response. But how far should the Govt. take this? Seems to me that the Supreme Court is a little over zealous in deciding what this means. Some of their decisions trouble me. Not only for my Christian beliefs, but for all religions or non-religions (if there is such a thing as a non-religion?) This country was founded on Christian principals (even though some of the founders were less than stellar in their convictions) and if you go to Wash. D.C. you'll see the 10 commandments etched in stone all over the place. Does it really hurt to have a large rock displayed in public that has the 10 commandments etched in it? You have the power to either look at it or walk by and ignore it. It is like a bill board (except that someone pays to have their message displayed) you can either look at it or ignore it. Personally I find many bill boards either as eye pollution or just plain offensive.

I glad you are more moderate than your original post suggested.

Now, I will intelligently disagree with your post in a couple of areas.

It is not correct to say this country was founded on "Christian principals".

The main principals of Christianity, at least as outlined in the Bible, are absent from our founding documents or our laws. I would include loving your neighbor, helping the poor, peacemaking, non-judging, turning the other cheek, honoring the king... These principals are all prominantly featured in the Bible.

If you have any doubt about the Christianity of the founding fathers, read Romans 13


It is clear that true Christians did not take part in the Revolution that started our Nation. There is no Biblical example of a rebellion that was supported by God-- even though the early Christians lived under a government that was far more unjust than the British Monarchy.

Likewise the main principles the United States was founded on are missing from the Bible (or previous Christian teachings). At the time, most Christians in the world were Monarchists as Christianity was used to defend Monarchy for a long time.

There is no mention of Democracy in the Bible. The closest you come is in Numbers 16. It was strongly condemned by Moses.

There is history of freedom of speech in Christianity, no separation of powers, no guarantees of privacy.

The people who founded our Nation appealed to Reason as a counter to religion. I say we do well to keep it this way.

As far as the 10 commandments... I think the issue is blown out of proportion from both sides, but I also think that technically the Supreme court rulings you disagree with are correct.

First of all, most of the 10 commandments are irrelevant to our laws or our culture. We work on Saturday. We are allowed to worship idols. Our right to use God's name however we please is protected by the 1st Amendment. Coveting is the American way for Christians and non-Christians alike. (Sure killing and stealing are still prohibited, but these commandments are part of nearly every cultures.)

But the real point is that our democracy is based on the fact the the government doesn't favor one religion over another. You may be right that this isn't the most important issue, but the principle is important.

A challenge for you. If a judge put the words "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is His prophet" prominantly in his courtroom, would you feel the same way?

Remember that wanting the government to favor one religion is decidedly undemocratic.

Re: Thank you


No you won't. If you are interested in the truth about that statement, please
check this link.

National capital

Re: Thank you


Not according to Arrticle 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.



The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president). Joel Barlow, the American diplomat served as counsel to Algiers and held responsibility for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. He became good friends with Paine, Jefferson, and read Enlightenment literature. Later he abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate of secular government. Joel Barlow wrote the original English version of the treaty, including Amendment 11. Barlow forwarded the treaty to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the secretary of state, endorsed it and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate. The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.

So here we have a clear admission by the United States in 1797 that our government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law as all U.S. Treaties do (see the Constitution, Article VI, Sect.2: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.")

Original Treaty of Tripoli