The Problem Of Evil

Cre8

Perhaps you should read it again, this fascinating Word of God, the Bible.

Jesus taught "Whosoever will may come" leaving no one out, and that we no longer live under the law, but under Grace.
For by grace are you saved, through faith...

You will note it is also written within those pages, the Word is spiritually discerned. It is not interpreted through the wisdom or knowledge of man.

I do not question how HE does it, I know it is because of Love. and I am grateful.

A-glow, what would you define as the operative difference between "Faith" and "Superstition"?

Superstition usually has it basis in fear. Example: Man has a black cat cross in front of him... he takes another route, fearing bad luck.
Or a woman says the same word twice or drops her towel in the floor, so she throws a bit of salt over her shoulder to change her luck-- (truth is she is likely very tired and merely needs to rest )

FAith is explained best in Hebrews 12.
It is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE of things not seen... (emphasis mine)

Reading through the long and thoughtful post of Cre8, I realize he is trying to grasp the whole of the Word of God since the beginning. Jesus preached, 'the law and the prophets are summed up by saying, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength, and your neighbor as yourself.'


It just seems to me (maybe I am wrong)-- that the reason people would compare Faith in God to superstition, is because they are searching for a general way to escape hell, (punishment)- and they have no desire to search the HEART of God by prayer. They want assurance they will go into heaven to live eternally with 'saints' (made such by the power of forgiveness and grace).
Yet, heaven would NOT be 'heaven' if it were to be a copy of earth and it's finite and selfish beings.
Without understanding the heartfelt joy the believer experiences when he/she comes to God in Faith and accepts the free gift of Salvation-
it is not too hard to see why one would think they are just 'guessing' they have something.
Still, we bow in prayer and thankfulness, the Lord is merciful and longsuffering- He will not come back until He is SURE everyone who WILL, has submitted his life into HIS keeping.


Faith has its basis in LOVE.

I just don't see that you have differentiated faith from superstition - nor do I see that there is a difference; both are belief sets without independent, empirical evidence. Both seem to me based on taking a particular prescribed course of action assumed and intended to be effective in the pusuit of avoiding some perceived future ill. Neither enjoys any validation beyond internally referential circular logic and personal preconception.

Now, while I don't KNOW that I am right in my assessment of theism, I have looked into it more than a little, am aware of no credible contrainducation and find convincingly logical the aruments against the proposition. I don't deny that gods exist; given the evidence at hand, that they might, even that one or another of the many proclaimed over the millenia might be paramount or even supreme merely is exceedingly improbable. There may be a god or gods or other divine entity, there may not be - the issue is unproven - perhaps, even likely, unproveable either way. On the other hand, to assert beyond doubt that there are gods or a god is absurd in the extreme.

I submit theists do not - cannot - KNOW they are correct in their assumption, any more than can atheists claim primacy for their position. Either may be - likely most, at least the sincere of both camps, are - CONVINCED of their particular notions, but that is not KNOWING, no matter how strong the conviction. What I KNOW regarding the matter is that I do not KNOW the answer. I SUSPECT theism is an invalid philosophy, but I remain UNCONVINCED one way or the other.

bookmarking

I could discuss the verses of the New Testament all day, but I will not.
I just feel those who really want to search for Jesus will certainly find HIM- because HE promised.... Ask, it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you...
Since I do not DEBATE my beliefs or beliefs/suppositions of other persons, I bid you all good day, and thank you for sharing with me.

Not lookin' for ya to debate your belief system - merely for you to explain and validate it in forensicaly proper manner, devoid of circular logic, internal reference, and personal preconception. I've yet to come across a religionist of any stripe who could do so (I've even read Aquinas and others in the original Latin, though my studies of other religions and their scholars have been mostly through English translations where necessary) - just wondered if perhaps you might be the one to break the chain. Appears not. Bummer. Oh, well - I'll keep lookin' - there may be someone who can break the chain out there somewhere. I'm willin' to be convinced.

What is the burden of proof you require, Timber? What standard are you needing .... preponderance of evidence .... clear and convincing .... beyond a reasonable doubt?

Doubtless it ultimately won't ever get past you needing to accept on faith alone.

Aye, there's the rub, eh? I'm just not a superstitious sort.

You and I both know the kind of proof you are asking for is not possible. I can no more "prove" that God exists thru some type of experiment than you can "prove" He does not exist. Otherwise it would not be described as faith, now would it? So A-glow is bowing out without taking your bait.

I submit neither of us do or can KNOW any such thing. Consider it bait if you so choose. I consider it legitimate - and unanswered - inquiry. Seems to me the only defense of "Faith" is "You have it or you don't, you're willin' to embrace it or you aren't".

Not very satisfyin', and certainly does nothin' to distinguish between "Faith" (at least in the religionist sense) and "Superstition".

On the issue of spirituality ... faith must guide intellect. Any attempt to begin with logic will never bring you to faith. As you said ... that's the rub.

There's that circular logic thing again - big, apparently insurmountable, problem for religionists. Gotta say in such regard you make my point for me.

Cre8, good post and welcome to A2K.

I would like to see A-glow or anyone else address the problem of evil and why a supposedly loving God created it, but unquestioning faith is the refuge of those who cannot acknowledge the fact that their religion is based on the most absurd and contradictory beliefs.

Evil was created after Monroe's presidency, when not everyone wanted to be a democrat.

Well, I would submit, Timber, that the problem is not with "religionists," but with non-believers. That being said, I'm not arguing with "your point," as I'm not into apologetics.

Ya - that's what I see - miles and miles of willingness.

Why does evil exist?

It's patently obvious. God is insane. Completely and utterly mad.

I think evil is %100 subjective.

Nearly all of us think of lies as evil yet all of us do it every day. But when you find out someone lied to YOU, well that's different.

I think that people deciding to do "evil" is actually very rare.

There have been plenty of murderers who were motivated to kill by the "evil" of prostitution. To them, they are helping to prevent evil !!

There have even been countries who have killed their own people because they were caught killing other people ! Imagine that !

Then there are some who can kill without a twinge of remorse while others will flagellate themselves having caught sight of a woman's ankle.

The population of any given community can usually agree on what should be considered a crime, but nobody can say what is " evil "