C.I., that's right. It is one of the cruelist rip-offs in America.
Yes, Dys. Training for technical work is not what "voters" need to vote wisely.
theantibuddha get very touchy when his own grammar is challenged. Me? I know I'm not perfect. But what the heck, I'm no buddha.
For a fair democracy it needs to be scaled down. A democracy that is supposed to govern millions of individuals will never be a well oiled machine. How is it possible to find a solution on such a level that will not violate someone on some other level?
We have democracy in Norway, where the population is approximately 5 million, and even then it doesn't work satisfactory. I think it has to do with the attitudes of the individuals.
We don't have a dictator terrorizing these five millions. Noo... we have five million dictators terrorizing eachother. That is how democracy is interpeted in today's greedy hearts. Hellish if you ask me.
Cyracuz, Here's something to chew on. In today's local newspaper, it talks about the issue of dishonesty being normal in today's world. Look at all the athletes that use chemicals to enhance their performance, look at all the CEOs that cheat and gain millions/billions at the cost of investors and employees, look at all the politicians who do not comply with election laws, look at all the white collar crooks that get away with millions and pay nothing or little back. It's a different world today than it was in my youth, and I'm afraid it's not going to revert back to the "good ole days."
Qanda, welcome to A2K and the world of the masses.
As Thoreau expresses it, as long as we have a majority of ONE, democracy is the form of government that it should be, but when the mass becomes a mob, capable of being swayed by clever orators, such as Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, then we have virtual anarchy.
C.I., you offered us something to chew on, but gave us something to gag on.
Cyracuz, democracy, as I think of it, must not only be "well oiled" (i.e., properly structured); it must also be runned by a society of sophisticates. Quality education is the essential prerequisite of an effective democracy.
of course, JL. Most of the majority of one are usually ignored.
Sorry, Lettyl, I forget the meaning of "a majority of one."
Well, JL. If you recall Henry David, you'll know that he spent a night in jail for his beliefs in democracy. He must have been the well spring of the ACLU. Of course, Walden Pond has become polluted, but Thoreau has gathered quite a following throughout history.
For all those who are interested in the true foundation of democracy:
The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail, by Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee, was first published in New York in 1971 during the Vietnam War. The play, which was a clear protest against the war, used a related incident from America's history to comment on the current war. In 1846, the writer, Henry David Thoreau, spent a night in jail for not paying his taxes. Thoreau refused to pay money that would support the war that was currently being waged against Mexico. This incident later provided the basis for Thoreau's popular essay, "Civil Disobedience." Lawrence and Lee's immensely popular play, which was deliberately produced in regional theaters as opposed to on or off Broadway, struck a chord with Vietnam-era audiences. In fact, the play was so relevant to the times that it was temporarily shut down shortly after its first performances in 1970, when another anti-Vietnam protest?-at Kent State University?-resulted in the death of several students.
Despite the lack of critical commentary, the play continues to be one of the most popular works by Lawrence and Lee, a writing team who enjoyed a fifty-two-year collaboration and who also wrote the immensely popular play, Inherit the Wind. In The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail, time and setting are shifted between each episodic scene without indication or explanation, forcing the audience or reader to pay close attention. These dream-like effects serve to highlight the main themes of the play?-rebelling against authority and expressing one's individuality?-universal themes that have appealed to many audiences, both nationally and internationally, since the play's first production.
The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail was published in a reissue edition in 1992
Thanks, Lettty; that was good. So I think I understand the meaning of "majority of one." When it comes to strong convictions, it is irrelevant whether or not it is supported or shared by the "majority of the many/most". The individual with the conviction must act on the conviction as if SHE is a majority. I recall Emerson asking Thoreau why he was IN jail, and Thoreau countered with the question, "Why are you OUT of jail?" There ARE times when one must take the (social-legal) consequences for acting on principles he considers to be right, even if he does so alone, or in the minority. Thanks again.
Exactly, JL. and I was trying to recall what Emerson had said. <smile>
Thank you for that.
I was thinking that maybe candidates have to be educated as well as the public, and that problems concerning the economy, etc be discussed in open forums... Yeah too complicated I guess.
My comments about the importance of education for a viable democracy should not be read as a reference solely to formal schooling. It also includes the importance of the news media. I heard an interview with Tom Fenton, former foreign corrspondent for CBS. He has a book out entitled Bad News (subtitle is something about the dumbing down of news in the United States). We should demand not only better schools but better news media reporting. At present they are dumbing down the news--especially the international news--in order to improve their ratings/profits. Universities teach students what the professorial staff thinks they need to know, not just what they would like to study (the latter is for their private time--another important venue for education). The same principle should be followed by the editorial staffs of the various news media. If citizens are not aware of what's going on in the world, they cannot make context-informed analyses and decisions.
True Jl.
I was also thinking of discussing fedderal economic choices, etc on open forums televised and where the public attends so that we can know what they're proposing and they should bring all the positive and negative facts of the proposal into the open as well perhaps oppositions argument and expert's analysis on things. The main problem that has to be overcome for this kind of stuff to happen is the espionage issues.
Yes, Ray. If incumbants of political office do not want to be transparent they invoke "national security" to conceal their dirty laundry.
I think that everybody should have the right to vote, and that presidents and governments should be easily changeable by some protocol.
However, the power people have in between votings can vary a lot.
In some democracies, that is more or less the only power people have. In others, citizens can get organized and use legal actions (such as petitions) to put some pressure on the government to change laws.
This other kind of democracy - a civic/civil society - is what I think is best at the moment. Power to everybody, but more to those who are ready to engage in learning what the laws are, and how the country should function.
As the internal rules of how this functions are pretty fluid at the moment, it can also be abused by the civic elite to bring on bad policies... and probably will be abused some day. But I still think it better than just voting once every 4-5 years and then going about your business.
