Dont be naive.

Unfortunately nothing can be absolutely proven. We can not even prove that we ourselves exist. Everything is a matter of belief. Some beliefs, like mathematics, are so well established that we treat them as if they are absolute. We have a high degree of faith in physics, and the other observable sciences. Many, perhaps most, folks find it pretty hard to believe in quantum physics where conventional logic and our native intuition are more often false than otherwise. Alice has stepped through the looking glass, and we/she can never quite be certain of the real nature of things.

Of course, we treat our strongest beliefs as if they were real otherwise we'd never be able to leave our beds in the morning. Perception and reality may seem to be the same thing, but we should never forget that they may not be at all alike. When you look for TRUTH unstained by any falsity, you are asking a whole lot.

We treat what we think we know as "real" and "true". So what makes up what it is that we think we know? Well, first we think that what we learn from our family and social grouping is "true". We learn from our peers on the school grounds, and from our teachers in the classroom. We learn from books. All of these are culturally biased toward our own cultural set.

For people raised in Western Civilization, we belive in humanistic values. Justice, fairplay, individual actualization and progress are all values that we generally accept as valid. Our notions about gender roles and how one behaves in public are all "truths" that we "buy into" as a part of being part of our cultural set. Other cultures may not hold the same values, but from their point of view their values are "true". Traditional Chinese culture, for instance, has little regard for "progress" toward some future state of greater perfection. For the Chinese, Utopia was back at the beginning of Chinese civilization and everything since has been downhill.

There is another foundation on which we base our notions of what is true and real. That is our own direct experience. When we touch a flame, we "know" fire burns. When we hold our babies, we "know" love. When we are frustrated we "know" anger, jealousy, and disappointment. Some folks experience exhaltation during the practice of the rites and rituals of their religious services, and thereby "know" their religious definition must be "true". Buddhists can and do experience Enlightenment, and "know" that perceptual reality is empty and no more than an illusion. Is such "knowing" anything more than a strong belief? Can we ever really believe the truth of something we don't believe in? Whatever it is we believe, we believe is True. So long as we can reserve our judgement and objectivity there is nothing wrong with that. When a person is so convinced of the TRUTH of their beliefs that they become intolerant of other beliefs and belief systems do we get into trouble. That's one of the great dangers of monotheism.

How does one compare the world views of the Abrahamic faiths with those of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, or any of the shamanistic religions of the world? Whose definition of Ultimate Reality are we going to accept? There are those who struggle to find commonalities between religions, and there are some commonalities. There are just as many irreconcilable differences as well.

Re: Dont be naive.


I would say that the important thing isn't that everything we currently believe in at the moment is true. The important thing is that we sincerely and wholeheartedly seek and desire Truth and strive toward perfection. Truth is life, and whosoever seeks the Truth and follows it, will eventually have all falsity in himself/herself uprooted. Contrariwise, if we do not seek the Truth, but confirm ourselves in falsity, then the seed of death will be sown in us, because falsities corrupt truths, and that which is corrupted has no life in it. Eventually we would come to the point where there is no longer any Truth in us, and we would perceive all truths as lies, and lies as truths, and then we would be completely dead.

Intention is everything. It's the very foundation upon which we are built. If the foundation consists of firm ground, i.e. a genuine desire for Truth, then all falsity which is built upon it will eventually collapse, and only that which is true will remain.

It is fair to find a belief and consider it accurate. Yet the universal uncertainty means that we should always add "I may be wrong", it is that ommission that turns decisive behaviour into naivety.

LOL

I would actually go so far as to say we should all wish we were so lucky as to be naive!!!

We are all ignorent.. but sometimes we get confused and start beiliving otherwise.. hopefully we'll wise up one day and realize that we really don't know anything.. we just think we do..

so disregard what i just said.. as i am but an ignorent fool.. and continue your search for knowledge..

Searching for knowledge seems like such folly as it will never bring satisfaction. There is too much to learn, and too little time to learn it.

Beer is the only certain thing.

Cheers.

YES!

If the acquisition of knowledge seems folly, then ignorance truly is bliss. Would you suffer less if you were illiterate? Would you find the darkness and the lightening so glorious if in your ignorance you were frightened of god's anger and demons of the dark?

Knowledge and understanding broaden our horizons and increase our appreciation for the world. Whatever Ultimate Reality might be, our views of Perceptual Reality are ordered by the content and state of our knowledge.

To advocate hedonism is to overlook its downsides. The pursuit of pleasure brings with it consequences. Drink too much of even the finest ventages (let alone the cheapest beer), and you will have a hangover and be miserable for half a day. Any police officer will attest to the effect of intoxication on aggressiveness and uncouth behavior. Hedonists tend to be selfish and self-centered living for their own pleasure without caring about its effects on others. Consequently, they often lead empty pointless lives. Companions of pleasure seldom form the sort of long-lasting bonds that most people treasure. Glorification of self gratification ain't all its cracked up to be by the young and inexperienced.

The thrill often times is in the pursuit...not the finish.

If had the choice of gaining ultimate knowledge, of course I would take it. However, the point I was trying to make is that spending one's life in the pursuit of 'knowledge' is a pointless exercise. The more you know, the more you realise how much you dont know.

BTW I'm not a drunk, I just enjoy a quiet beer now and then.

Thus making chatting philosophy with good friends over a nice beer, then having sex with one of them the perfect mix :wink:

you are going to hell for that! I'm just joking! :wink: I prefer wine myself.

Well I've commited 9 out of the 27 biblical death sentence offences so... yeah, I'm pretty resigned to going to hell on the off chance that the christians are right...



I have no tolerance for wine, just a glass or two will get me drunk. Whereas I can drink several jugs of beer and only get about as drunk as I would from the wine... odd really.

If the muslims are right we'd both be in hell... should drink vodka or mead instead, they're not forbidden in Islam

I like to drink garbage juice