11
   

What is your viewpoint or opinion on more regulations vs. deregulation of various industries?

 
 
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2018 11:05 pm
What is your viewpoint or opinion on more regulations vs. deregulation of various industries?
 
View best answer, chosen by Real Music
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:12 am
@Real Music,
My opinion has hardened over the years after being involved in helping CLEAN UP th crap that mining and chemical companies have spilled and poured over the environment/

WITHOUT SUFFICIENT REGULATIONS ESTABLISHING BEHAVIOR, HARDLY ANY COMPANY WILL "DO THE RIGHT THING" Anybody that argues differently is totally naive.
Ive made a very nice living being at the center of cleanups and representing companies whove sought insurance coverage for Environmental Liabilitiy. "Insurance companies are even worse". Thir business model is to take your money and NEVER give it back.

41 years of experience in this arena has provided me with the above
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 11:11 am
@Real Music,
Deregulation tends to favor short term corporate profits over the long term health and safety of citizens and consumers. Most regulations were put into place to address specific problems. Bureaucratic inertia over the years has led to extremely cumbersome rules which are difficult to understand and expensive to comply with but rather than address particularly ineffective or burdensome regulations the current administration has chosen to do away with them completely. The consequences of this irresponsibility will be visited on future generations.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 11:53 am
@hightor,
The original clean water act was relatively short. It had standards by which industries could comply and , left to their own monitoring, they made a mess of it. Subsequent additions, Clean Water as Amended, Toxic Substances Act (TSCA) , etc etc, became policy oriented. Indutry still pulled off major violations and destroyed large segmenst of the environment and endangered public health. The hell of it is that all the contamination, the rules, the state programs, all resulted in tye birth of some major industries involved in cleanups an preventive design and pioneering research into new designs as "after market" gizmos on production processes resulted in the US becoming a leader in the environmental tech industry. This went on for several decades until most verything became commoditized . We arent any better because (eg) in Pa and ND weve gone full bore into fracking an wet gas extraction without having any idea what would be th consequence. As it looks, the environmental damages are minor an can be designed for. STill,It was like the use of th first A bombs with only guesstimates as to the yields and safety margins via separation distances.

We found that out ONCE and almost lost several ships an crew by under-estimating nuke yield by 15 times
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 02:40 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

.....We found that out ONCE and almost lost several ships an crew by under-estimating nuke yield by 15 times


Are you referring to weapons or powerplants? I know of no such incidents
0 Replies
 
Agent1741
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 04:23 pm
It would depend on the industry! Some may well need regulation others not so much. Overall though regulation is pointless if its not enforced & that's another matter! For example as of july 1 in this state you are not allowed to hold etc your cell phone whilst driving which is great BUT how can they enforce it? Waste going into rivers can be bad depending on the content so it has to be monitored but if no-one does it?????
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 08:26 pm
@Agent1741,
Quote:
It would depend on the industry! Some may well need regulation others not so much. Overall though regulation is pointless if its not enforced & that's another matter!

What about the banking industry or Wall Street?
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 08:33 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
My opinion has hardened over the years after being involved in helping CLEAN UP th crap that mining and chemical companies have spilled and poured over the environment/

WITHOUT SUFFICIENT REGULATIONS ESTABLISHING BEHAVIOR, HARDLY ANY COMPANY WILL "DO THE RIGHT THING" Anybody that argues differently is totally naive.

The current head of the Environmental Protection Agency, Scott Pruitt, is systematically dismantling the EPA.
This ultimately benefits the biggest polluters.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2018 08:40 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Deregulation tends to favor short term corporate profits over the long term health and safety of citizens and consumers.

That sounds like pure unapologetic GREED.
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 12:57 am
@Real Music,
I have always been a fan of heavy regulation, but it seems useless. Every time regulation is proposed, it is an endless, tiresome, uphill battle, and the end result is never satisfactory. And all the time,even after regulation is made, companies and all sorts of organizations protest it, often successfully in the end.

Perhaps we should stop regulating industries, and just let the world see first hand, with cold hard evidence, what happens if the captains of industry get full clearance to do what they bloody well please, without a shred of concern if the consequences might come back to bite them in the rear...

I might be a tad cynical though...
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 07:55 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Deregulation tends to favor short term corporate profits over the long term health and safety of citizens and consumers. Most regulations were put into place to address specific problems. Bureaucratic inertia over the years has led to extremely cumbersome rules which are difficult to understand and expensive to comply with but rather than address particularly ineffective or burdensome regulations the current administration has chosen to do away with them completely. The consequences of this irresponsibility will be visited on future generations.


I think there is a very significant place for regulations in our society. Like you mention for the health and safety of consumers, but also the environment like Farmerman mentioned.

That being said, as someone who has recently started even just a simple real estate business, there are a ton of rules that do not seem to make sense; no way to navigate or even be aware of these rules without hiring an attorney; and months sometimes before some of the state regulator people even return a phone call or an email.

The process is not conducive to starting a successful business.

I don't want to see most regulation disappear, but I want the regulators to hear the needs and complaints of their customers and be forced to address them and make the processes better.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 08:40 am
@Real Music,
Regulations are like rules for a game. If everyone knows the rules and plays by the rules, the game runs smoothly. Even if businesses don't like the rules, everyone knows them and everyone has to follow them, it is a level playing field. A no-rules environment is going to favor those with power and is going to hammer those without power, typically little guys without to money to amplify their voices.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 08:53 am
@engineer,
Human nature is such that rules and regulations become corrupted over time as individuals work to preserve their self interest and evade the effect of such rules or minimize their effect. In short "everyone" will not follow the rules or their intent, when they get in the way of self interest.

That is not to suggest that no such rules or regulations should exist, however they should be simple and easily enforced. Many supposedly beneficial regulations are merely restraints on trade or competition advanced by entities which wish to maintain their competitive advantage and exclude new entrants into their markets.

The question here isn't whether regulations should or should not exist, but rather how many and to what extent. The economic welfare of the country will not be well maintained by bureaucrats writing rules. Creativity, innovation and competition do well in this area in many situations that are often the subject of zealous rule-making.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 02:11 pm
@georgeob1,
It's absolutely true that the powerful will use bogus regulations to prevent small businesses from horning in on lucrative areas (like dentists using licensing boards to prevent non-dentists from doing teeth whitening). It's up to government to work to prevent that, but basic regulations around pollution control and health (the ones that you hear about people complaining about) are critical to ensure a proper balance between industry and quality of life. That other countries are willing to sacrifice their safety and health to lure businesses is not a reason for us to follow them to the bottom.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 02:41 pm
@engineer,
Much environmental law is designed so that so called intervenors are empowered to initiate court action to enforce them in favored particular cases This violates our Democratic principles and has led to numerous actions by self-appointed interest groups, endlessly delaying, and often preventing, otherwise beneficial economic activity that has zero or minimal environmental impact. Such laws quickly become tools for special interests in exactly the same way as do the Licensing boards to which you referred.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 07:52 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Regulations are like rules for a game. If everyone knows the rules and plays by the rules, the game runs smoothly. Even if businesses don't like the rules, everyone knows them and everyone has to follow them, it is a level playing field.
The problem is that some companies deliberately and knowingly violate the rules.
One reason companies intentionally violate the rules is because they believe they can get away with it.
Another reason is because the fines and penalties for breaking rules can be tiny compared to the
enormous amount of money made from breaking the rules.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 08:02 pm
@Agent1741,
Quote:
It would depend on the industry! Some may well need regulation others not so much. Overall though regulation is pointless if its not enforced & that's another matter! For example as of july 1 in this state you are not allowed to hold etc your cell phone whilst driving which is great BUT how can they enforce it? Waste going into rivers can be bad depending on the content so it has to be monitored but if no-one does it?????

A law that makes it illegal for you to hold your cell phone while driving is a law that regulates you.
You are not an industry.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jun, 2018 08:07 pm
@najmelliw,
Quote:
I have always been a fan of heavy regulation, but it seems useless. Every time regulation is proposed, it is an endless, tiresome, uphill battle, and the end result is never satisfactory. And all the time,even after regulation is made, companies and all sorts of organizations protest it, often successfully in the end.
You are basically describing money in politics.
najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 02:32 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
I have always been a fan of heavy regulation, but it seems useless. Every time regulation is proposed, it is an endless, tiresome, uphill battle, and the end result is never satisfactory. And all the time,even after regulation is made, companies and all sorts of organizations protest it, often successfully in the end.
You are basically describing money in politics.


Hmm, perhaps I am. However, since such regulations invariably come from politicians, I think these topics are tightly woven together: I see no problem with my answer to the original question.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 07:53 am
@najmelliw,
It is cynical, but the reason I don't think it's too cynical is that the industries have mastered the art of working around the regulations given them and lobbying to tweak the rules in ways that benefit them. Also, one effect of regulation is to protect industry leaders from competition, which makes them more profitable and thus attractive for investment.

Not only are more regulated industries more attractive for investment and thus expansion, the public also feels more comfortable with consuming more when they believe the industries behind the products they are consuming are well-regulated and thus less of an environmental threat. They may even spend more on certified products with the idea that they are supporting 'good industries' by doing so and thus helping to save and protect the planet.

Do you really think that expanding industries and consumer-confidence in them can occur without causing more environmental problems? Are there really 'clean' industries or is it always better to conserve than to burn through resources full-throttle in the belief that they are 'clean?'

imo, nothing can be sustainable if its use/consumption is not kept to a minimum. The second law of thermodynamics (entropy) causes everything to break down at a faster or slower rate depending on how fast potential energy is converted into kinetic energy. There may be natural processes that re-potentiate energy in various ways, but if we consume faster than those processes can heal the planet, it doesn't really matter how well-regulated and thus 'clean' we imagine industry to have become, because the system is degenerating faster than it can repair itself.
0 Replies
 
 

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