Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!

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By Paul Andrew Bourne, MSc. (candidate), BSc. (Hons.), Dip. Edu.

Peoples' socialization begins with symbolic representation in the form of words, gestures, facial gesticulations and later abstract generalizations. If your societies are primarily comprised of social meaning systems, who define the norms, the values, the standards and lastly the perception? conceptualizations such as sex, love, hate, lies and mischief have been highly valued within societies, why? In addition, why the middle class (i.e. predominately the educated class) should outline the standards of culture for the masses?

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Because we are blind as mules and greedy as little dictators. The middle class that is.

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Sire:-

That is very classy understatement.

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No insult intended to the mules by the way.

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Re: Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!

paul andrew bourne wrote:

why the middle class (i.e. predominately the educated class) should outline the standards of culture for the masses?

Money.

There's a lot of them, they have (and spend) money within the forums of popular culture.

Likewise the upperclass strongly affect the business culture and world.

The poor affect nothing. They have no money.

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Re: Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!
antibuddha

Money. Upperclass. Business. Culture.

Does that mean that a Beethoven's Quartet can only be defined, in social terms, within those parameters?
And, what is popular culture? Does that mean that you consider a Beethoven's Quartet and a rock band as similar forms of musical culture? Then, you also accept astrology - an example - and Hawkings as similar examples of scientific culture?

These questions have to do with the fact I think that perhaps I didn't understand your reply.

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Val, Beethove, Bach or Guns 'n' roses. It's all culture. I am a musician and play them all with equal delight. This has nothing to do with social standing. It has to do with intelligence. I have a musical talent wich enables me to hear something, understand it and then play it if I want to. So you might say that I belong to the "musical upper class" if there is such a thing, but this says nothing about my standing socially.

When we get right down to it, the composers mentioned here were in fact the rebels of that day, in the same way that rock music has been so in our age. They were revered because of their skill, not because of their inheritance or their money. Mozart, for instance, died poor, and was buried in a mass grave.

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Re: Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!
Val mate. Culture is the interaction of trillions of neurons within each human interacting through about ten input senses and a vast output capacity with the influence of chemical and physical forces across a current population of six billion individuals. It continues throughout history and has had thousands of years of cumulative development.

Any answer is a simplification. Mine moreso than most.

Yet I feel that I captured the core point of it as it related to our betitled friend's question.

val wrote:

Does that mean that a Beethoven's Quartet can only be defined, in social terms, within those parameters?

See above

Quote:

Does that mean that you consider a Beethoven's Quartet and a rock band as similar forms of musical culture?

Yes.

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Then, you also accept astrology - an example - and Hawkings as similar examples of scientific culture?

Popular scientific culture, dear Watson, popular.

As I said to my two male french friends who were play-fighting in the back of english class, one word makes all the difference. They were shouting at one another "I want to f**k you, I want to f**k you". I had to explain that it meant something completely different if you left out the "up"

Quote:

These questions have to do with the fact I think that perhaps I didn't understand your reply.

*sobs into hands* I cut my reply down to five sentences and it's still confusing.....

It's quite simple. People who spend money influence what gets made. The middle class spends a lot of money. The upper class HAVE a lot of money yet quite often don't spend it at least not in the marketplaces of popular culture. Thus the upper class tend to influence business development because that's where they spend the bulk of their money.

Of course all the factors are messing around influencing one another in bizarre cycles. It's culture. It's certainly not going to be straight and easy to decode. In the end it mostly comes down to money.

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Re: Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!
antibuddha

"It's quite simple. People who spend money influence what gets made".

Does that mean that a work of art, a scientific theory, are what "people who spend money" want them to be?

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Quote:

"It's quite simple. People who spend money influence what gets made".

True to certain extent. That there are people to spend money influences that someone will have something to sell. But is it the seller or the buyer that decides what is on the market? Consumers have to be told what to do. I do not think anyone ever asked for a coca cola before it was invented to meet some need that the inventor had noticed. It's a two way communication.

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Does that mean that a work of art, a scientific theory, are what "people who spend money" want them to be?

No. The other way around is probably closer to the truth. Works of art and scientific theories, raped by politicians and other powerslaves, form the manifest wich tells you what to want.

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Re: Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!

val wrote:

Does that mean that a work of art, a scientific theory, are what "people who spend money" want them to be?

Yes.

Cyracuz wrote:

That there are people to spend money influences that someone will have something to sell. But is it the seller or the buyer that decides what is on the market?

The buyer.

Unfortunately your preconception that it is the seller who decides (as logical as it is) is based upon the marketplace of a different era. Modern capitalism buys things before they're made and invests the money required into their construction. Science (as much as we would like to think otherwise) is not immune, though at least a small ammount of credence must be paid to the facts, limited the complete monetary control of science.

While it is possible for some freedom of expression to peek through the cracks, it is by no means a matter of course or expectation. Many famous historical artists nearly starved to death to produce art that no one with money wanted. Now they are sought after commodities. This occurs yet is strongly discouraged by our society's structure. It's a rarity.

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Many famous historical artists nearly starved to death to produce art that no one with money wanted. Now they are sought after commodities.

I hope that happens with my art soon, cause right now, I'm just hungry and misunderstood. Cool

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Cyracuz wrote:

I hope that happens with my art soon, cause right now, I'm just hungry and misunderstood.

Join the darn club Wink

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while you may be the antibuddha, I am starting to suspect that I might be the Antipop... But I wouldn't have it any other way

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Cyracuz wrote:

while you may be the antibuddha, I am starting to suspect that I might be the Antipope... But I wouldn't have it any other way

You're french?

Sorry mate, the antipope title was claimed centuries ago back when there were 2 vaticans. One in rome, one in avignon. For a little while there were 2 popes. One won, the other lost. The loser is known in history as the "antipope".

How about the anti-inquisitor? I don't believe that title has been taken yet.

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I'm not french. Norwegian.
I misspelled it, antibuddha. sorry. Not antipope, but anti-pop. Pop as in popular culture. Pop music. Antipop. Twisted Evil

Interesting about the two popes by the way. Christians are crazy...

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Cyracuz wrote:

I misspelled it,

Actually you spelled it correctly and I misquoted it.

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Interesting about the two popes by the way. Christians are crazy...

There are two thousand years of crazy stories about those guys. There seems to be something about telling a person that every instinct their body possesses is wrong, threatening them with torture and giving them a massive guilt complex that makes people completely insane.

I wonder why....

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antibuddha

"guilt and punishment, all the "moral order" of the world, were invented against science, against the liberation of men from priests ... a man must not look to the outside, but inside of himself. He must not look to things with the wish of learning, he must not see: he must suffer ... and he must suffer in order to need the priest! - Out with doctors! What you need is the salvation!"

Nietzsche, "Der Antichrist".

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Quote:

There are two thousand years of crazy stories about those guys. There seems to be something about telling a person that every instinct their body possesses is wrong, threatening them with torture and giving them a massive guilt complex that makes people completely insane.

That's it exactly. Scary actually. These lies were all the public knew in the old times. What if today's headlines are of the same suspisious motives...

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Sex, Love, Hate, Lies and Mischief!

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