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How you look up to the Netherlands?

 
 
Sidderaal00
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2005 03:08 pm
nimh wrote:
You're right, we will never know ...


Which party you voting normally by the way?
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2005 03:22 pm
Twisted Evil
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2005 03:58 pm
Francis wrote:
Twisted Evil


Minima non curat praetor. :wink:
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2005 05:55 pm
Sidderaal00 wrote:
Which party you voting normally by the way?

Heh. You probably guessed already: Groen Links. You? Fortuyn/Wilders, or VVD?
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Sidderaal00
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 10:48 am
nimh wrote:
Sidderaal00 wrote:
Which party you voting normally by the way?

Heh. You probably guessed already: Groen Links. You? Fortuyn/Wilders, or VVD?


I already thought so, and you live in a white vinnex-wijk without any immigrants? :wink:

I'm a floating voter... if you can call it like that in English Very Happy
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 12:16 pm
Sidderaal00 wrote:
I already thought so, and you live in a white vinnex-wijk without any immigrants? :wink:

Nope. Wrong assumption. I live downtown.

Neighbourhood's a mixed bag. Used to be all rented houses, now they're mixing in "koophuizen" - yuppification looms, but hasnt quite gotten here yet. Mostly all single or living-together thirty-somethings anyway, so there's a Greenleftish atmosphere to the place, for sure. Dont take away that two of my five neighbours are non-white. As for the notorious Moroccan youth, they're here too, just in a different way. There's four coffeeshops in a 500 meter radius, so all effing spring, summer and autumn long I get mixed groups of teens smoking their newly bought joints out in front of my windows - I live downstairs, and the council folks once apparently thought it a good idea to place a bench-sized slab of concrete down in the little corner here (thats how I got the apartment in the first place - #1-4 on the list rejected it when they heard about it). The kids are sometimes funny - bunch of anecdotes about them in my "what made you smile today" thread. And sometimes they're annoying. Either way you get pretty tired of it after three years - all day and evening the yelling, etc. Last summer they finally tore out the slab and put in a dreary plot of thorny shrubs instead, so lets see.

Funny tho how the Fortuynist-types always automatically assume that if you're not xenophobic, you must cosily live in white suburbia. Fact is that the average Green Left voter still earns less than average, and is much more likely to live in a big city, and downtown. While the List Fortuyn got a fair share of the vote in all those white commuter towns - Niewegein, Almere, Rijswijk ...

Sidderaal00 wrote:
I'm a floating voter... if you can call it like that in English Very Happy

Yep, you can. So, where do you live? Razz
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 12:33 pm
nimh wrote:

Funny tho how the Fortuynist-types always automatically assume that if you're not xenophobic, you must cosily live in white suburbia. Fact is that the average Green Left voter still earns less than average, and is much more likely to live in a big city, and downtown. While the List Fortuyn got a fair share of the vote in all those white commuter towns - Niewegein, Almere, Rijswijk ...


Most funny thing, really, that don't just do so/live similar in The Netherlands but in Germany, the UK, Austria, Sweden and France as well (speaking only from my own experiences).
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Sidderaal00
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 02:45 pm
nimh wrote:
Sidderaal00 wrote:
I already thought so, and you live in a white vinnex-wijk without any immigrants? :wink:

Nope. Wrong assumption. I live downtown.

Neighbourhood's a mixed bag. Used to be all rented houses, now they're mixing in "koophuizen" - yuppification looms, but hasnt quite gotten here yet. Mostly all single or living-together thirty-somethings anyway, so there's a Greenleftish atmosphere to the place, for sure. Dont take away that two of my five neighbours are non-white. As for the notorious Moroccan youth, they're here too, just in a different way. There's four coffeeshops in a 500 meter radius, so all effing spring, summer and autumn long I get mixed groups of teens smoking their newly bought joints out in front of my windows - I live downstairs, and the council folks once apparently thought it a good idea to place a bench-sized slab of concrete down in the little corner here (thats how I got the apartment in the first place - #1-4 on the list rejected it when they heard about it). The kids are sometimes funny - bunch of anecdotes about them in my "what made you smile today" thread. And sometimes they're annoying. Either way you get pretty tired of it after three years - all day and evening the yelling, etc. Last summer they finally tore out the slab and put in a dreary plot of thorny shrubs instead, so lets see.

Funny tho how the Fortuynist-types always automatically assume that if you're not xenophobic, you must cosily live in white suburbia. Fact is that the average Green Left voter still earns less than average, and is much more likely to live in a big city, and downtown. While the List Fortuyn got a fair share of the vote in all those white commuter towns - Niewegein, Almere, Rijswijk ...

Sidderaal00 wrote:
I'm a floating voter... if you can call it like that in English Very Happy

Yep, you can. So, where do you live? Razz


I live in a white neigborhood, but I'm standing socially strong with the white Dutch people in the suburbs, so I'm not that quite hopefull about immigrants. Not that I'm a racist, in my family there are some non-westers immigrants married on, even with my son.

You're not right about Green Left. Green Left got the most well-educated voters of all parties, and so on they earn more then average and so on they usually live more in white neighorhoods.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 07:15 pm
Sidderaal00 wrote:
You're not right about Green Left. Green Left got the most well-educated voters of all parties, and so on they earn more then average and so on they usually live more in white neighorhoods.

Nope. You can look this stuff up. They do polls on the income/education of voters after each elections and election results by neighbourhoods can be found at the city hall.

Yes, you'll have guessed I'm an utter nerd about these things. I made whole studies of this neighbourhoods thing, man! Razz

You're right on one count: Green Left voters are on average quite highly educated. Overrepresentation of university graduates.

But this doesnt translate (as of yet) into higher-than-average incomes. Perhaps because the GL attracts a lot of students and young people who've only just graduated. Perhaps b/c of the stereotype about how the GL attracts, you know, sociologists, linguists, people like that - not the economy and law graduates who go on to make big money ;-). Perhaps because the GL traditionally also does well among "uitkeringstrekkers" (those on benefits). I dont know exactly why - probably a combination of factors - but its true.

In my archive, for example, is this table of party preference by income level that was published by the Volkskrant after the local elections of 2002. Among those earning less than average ("modaal"), the Green Left got 7% of the vote, while among those earning up to or over 2 times average, it got 5%. Fairly even across the scale thus, but still slanted towards the lower incomes. The same held true, but more strongly of course, for Labour, the Socialist Party and also the Christian-Democrats and small Christian parties. It was for the Democrats'66 and the VVD that the opposite was true.

In fact, there's something funny about the statistical pattern: its like - university graduates are likely to vote GL - until they start earning enough, and then they move on to D66 Razz.

I participate in Maurice de Hond's poll panel, and there too I see week after week that the Green Left is among the parties overrepresented in my income bracket - the bottom one, that is. Along with the Socialists, the small Christian parties and the lists Fortuyn/Wilders.

By heart, the pattern basically is:
High educated/low income - more than average (likely to vote) GL or SP.
High educated/high income - more than average D66 or VVD.
Low educated/high income - more than average VVD, List Fortuyn.
Low educated/low income - more than average Labour, SP, Fortuyn.

The pattern is also impacted by preferences of ethnic groups. Most immigrants traditionally vote Labour, but between 1994-2002 the Moroccans voted Green Left. They seem to have left again in 2003 though.

You can see all this back in the results by city and neighbourhood. The Green Left traditionally does best in the largest cities (except Rotterdam) and the university towns, with Amsterdam and Utrecht on top. It does worst in villages and suburbs. There's small towns where it does pretty well too, but a Vinexwijk is pretty much the least likely place to find Green Lefters. In Utrecht, for example, the brand new Leidsche Rijn district and the newly incorporated (and wholly white) towns of Vleuten/De Meern is where it gets least votes of all. Instead, it does best in the inner city, or rather, the neighbourhoods around it.

Let's take Utrecht, thats where I live now. The old PSP and CPN in the 80s did best in the inner city (binnenstad). But since the binnenstad became more prosperous, with squatters and students moving out, the Green Left has had to yield ground there to first D66, then VVD. Instead, it now does best in, on the one hand, multicultural Lombok/Nieuw-Engeland and the Staatsliedenbuurt; and on the other hand the "trendy" neighbourhoods bordering downtown: Vogelenbuurt, Wittevrouwen, Oudwijk.

Sociologically speaking, its a precarious balance. If an old working class neighbourhood starts gentrifying, like Lombok did, thats good news for the Green Left, whose voters are the first to move in. But when the neighbourhood then really starts picking up and attracting yuppies, like Wittevrouwen is now, the Green Left starts losing ground again.

Overall though, if you compare the Green Left now with the PSP/PPR/CPN of 1989, it's become much more a "people's party", its support much more equally spread across the different neighbourhoods. In fact, interestingly enough, compared to '89 the Green Left in Utrecht has won significantly both in the poor "volkswijken" and in the most prosperous neighbourhoods, but has actually lost support in its old bulwarks of the inner city (Binnenstad as well as Vogelenbuurt and Wittevrouwen). I was really surprised when I saw that. So when I wrote an analysis of the results for my fellow-GL'ers here in 2002, I called it "Branching out - from elite- to people's party".

Fair is fair though: this trend has not continued under Femke Halsema. For one, the GL lost all its Moroccan support in 2003 (probably because of how Rabbae was worked out of the party), while it consolidated itself in the upper/middle-class neighbourhoods. It might thus be that in, say, another eight years you will be right after all. The German Greens after all also used to have the poorest voters of all back in the eighties - and now have the richest voters of all. I dont hope thats where we're going, but with Halsema and her "social liberalism" in charge of the party we might. For now, though, you remain wrong ;-).

Anyway, hope I didnt bore the socks off you in the meantime ...
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reeljohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2005 09:59 pm
(hi. computer problems sort of resolved. Just marking), The other thread re Dutch politics was?
---realjohnboy---
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2005 12:29 am
reeljohnboy wrote:
The other thread re Dutch politics was?
Elections in the Netherlands (again) :wink:
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AjiniANL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 04:02 pm
Hey i love Holland.............
I like the attraction park called EFTELING, madurodam, noordzeee
nice white cuties, nice meadow with cow and wind mills.

i like the vlaamse frieten, and kroketten

what else is there more intresting....."Anne Frank Museum:
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tammy45
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:58 am
Dutchies
My parents were born and raised in the Netherlands. I never really paid much attention to the culture until now. My aunt (Tanta) who is 84 and her daughter came to visit. A couple of months ago another Tanta and her husband came (oma?) Anyway, I felt like they were a breath of fresh air! So liberal and so vibrant and so much fun! I really would like to correspond with someone from Holland if anyone wants to. Dutch people are not snobs........they just saw what they feel and I personally think that is cool.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:10 am
Welcome to A2K, tammy!

Thanks for your report.

('oma' would be grandmother, btw)

I'm sure, some of our Dutch members will respond here.
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tammy45
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:28 am
thanks for the welcome...I know Oma is grandmother...but I still remember Oma Jo and Tanta Geirjie and Ome Arie and Tanta Sien and I dont think Airie and Joe were grandmas. Anyways, I look forward to speaking with ppl in this group.

I must wonder why.....everyone looks like Alfred Hitchcock
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AjiniANL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 04:48 am
Hey...welkom op deze net Tammy
i am dutch too? U too i guess
Nice meeting ya
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tammy45
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 03:33 pm
Thanks for the Welcome
I look forward to talking more about the Dutch. We recently had relatives here from Holland and they were a blast! I have an open invitation to go to Holland and I really would like to go. My parents were born in Rotterdam and Heerensdam (sp?). They moved to Canada after they got married - becuase apparently there was a housing shortage at the time. I was born in Canada. We moved to California when I was 2. My favorite things my parents brought to me about Holland............are: Ollie Bollen on New Years...it is a tradition we still all do. Do you make them on New Years? And of course, Gouda Cheese and zoute drop........best thing in the world for a sore throat. I remember my first date with a guy who was visiting from Holland...........he brought my Zoute Drop when he came to pick me up. It was better than a dozen roses.....never had a guy bring me those before. I would like to know if you make ollie bollen on New Years and if you mash your vegatables like carrots and potoes to make a (what my mom called prukie) with gravy in the middle. And have you ever heard of a food named Beast? Please respond as I would be interested.
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AjiniANL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 04:01 pm
Quote:
I look forward to talking more about the Dutch. We recently had relatives here from Holland and they were a blast! I have an open invitation to go to Holland and I really would like to go. My parents were born in Rotterdam and Heerensdam (sp?). They moved to Canada after they got married - becuase apparently there was a housing shortage at the time. I was born in Canada. We moved to California when I was 2. My favorite things my parents brought to me about Holland............are: Ollie Bollen on New Years...it is a tradition we still all do. Do you make them on New Years? And of course, Gouda Cheese and zoute drop........best thing in the world for a sore throat. I remember my first date with a guy who was visiting from Holland...........he brought my Zoute Drop when he came to pick me up. It was better than a dozen roses.....never had a guy bring me those before. I would like to know if you make ollie bollen on New Years and if you mash your vegatables like carrots and potoes to make a (what my mom called prukie) with gravy in the middle. And have you ever heard of a food named Beast? Please respond as I would be interested.


Hey tammy....
I was really happy to read ur topic.Your response made me thinking what I did back in Holland.I moved to Holland when i was 5 years old and now I am 21.I lived for about 15 yearsin Holland.There I lived in Dordrecht for about 4 years( Zuid-Holland),then we moved to a village in Noord-Brabant.My childhood in Holland was very exciting.My firts job was then picking strawberries in the cars or bucket.The boss of the strawberries field is were our family friends.So that was pretty cool.I ate all the strawberries since then instead of putting them in the basket.My stomach were full and my basket of strawberries were not.The pays were counted based on the amount of basket u picked. Rolling Eyes .The New Years events in Holland is very exciting, Oliebollen are the traditional food for the newyears.My favourite candies are the dropjes(zoute dropjes) Laughing .Everyday after school , I and my galfriends always grabbed some bags of those zoete and zoute dropjes.My favourite food is the Vlaamse frieten or patat with Kroketten or frikadellen.

Sorry guys my grammer is not that perfect.I have been here in Ca for about 5 years.I am really improving my english because of dutch speaking . It does really help me to survie :wink:
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