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What is the only invertebrate with intelligence, and consciousness?

 
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2018 11:16 am
"Dumbo" octopus encountered over 1 mile under the ocean 200 miles off the coast of Oregon. Grimpoteuths bathynectes is a deep sea pelagic octopus with ear-like or wing-like fins.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDxBVZhZZwI
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2018 01:23 pm
Extraordinary octopus takes to land.

https://youtu.be/ebeNeQFUMa0
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2018 04:10 pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eXrzpisJ9pI

Copyright: CGB
Published: 03.07.2009 (Last updated: 10.11.2017)
The microbiological discoveries here at the vents may be the most ground-breaking in terms of new biological knowledge, but for me, Dumbo - the cirrate octopod - is the most breathtaking.

Pink and un-worldly, "Dumbo" sailed up in front of our video cameras when we first arrived at this location in 2007. Probably not very large, without laser measuring tools on the ROV we cannot measure objects accurately - maybe 50cm or so - but amazingly calm and graceful!

A web search yields tantalisingly little information. Cirrate octopods, or finned octopods, live in the deep sea and have fragile, gelatinous bodies, so they are rarely seen and rarely captured, and those that are captured are generally more or less destroyed by conventional collection methods.

Our few minutes of video footage are some of the best glimpses mankind has ever had into these rare and beautiful organisms.

"Our" Dumbo (we saw one on virtually every dive in 2008), appeared at the deepest moments - around 2700m. We always saw them singly. Sometimes they would be suspended calmly, drifting near the seafloor in what the literature calls the umbrella pose - supposedly using their web as a net to "fish" small organisms such as shrimp. Sometimes our camera light caught them rising gracefully from the seafloor - using a thrusting motion of their web downward before moving into fin-propulsion mode, using their two large "dumbo-ear" fins on the sides of their heads. (We had not noticed them before they rose up into the camera's view, so it is impossible to say what position they have been in before they came to our attention.)

We generally stopped when we saw one (we saw about one per dive) - and what person would not, when confronted by such an unusual and beautiful creature - our ROV's motion could be described as being as unthreatening as possible. The octopod would swim slowly with its fins or hang suspended gracefully, drifting before us for several minutes, before it thrusted with its web skirt to swim away, or until we moved away.

Its skin is almost transparent. Cartilaginous-looking structures in its head and fins are clearly visible through the delicate looking pink tissue. Sometimes the whole outer skin including the web structure would shimmer with fine waves of contractile movement - some of the literature mentions peristaltic motion.

The webbing between the appendages is fixed at the tips of the appendages. The octopod seemed able to extend to "skirt" of web tight at the tips of the appendages or to hold it up in the manner of a gracious lady lifting her skirts over a puddle.

The eyes were large and black, but seemed to be under the main, almost transparent outer skin. There is no mention of them being blind in the literature, but might their vision be limited? We saw no evidence of bioluminescence.

The siphon was clearly visible in a "nose" position. Together with the eyes and large fins (ear position), they combined to make the "Dumbo" face.

We have not seen an example of the ballooning, defensive behaviour, reported in some of the literature. We never saw inking, and this supports the literature, which says that inking is absent for this group of animals.

The literature suggests that the web is used in feeding. The octopod apparently uses it to enclose a volume of water, thus trapping small organisms such as shrimp. Unfortunately, the one time this was observed in an aquarium, the enclosed material was then shut off from view, so the actual eating was only assumed!

learn more

Dumbo is probably a member of the Opithoteuthidae family, and within this probably a member of the Grimpoteuthis (see more information on the Tree of Life web site under the family, Opisthoteuthidae).

Papers on behaviour and locomotion. The phylogenetic organisation of the cirrate is hotly disputed.



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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2018 02:56 pm
Octopuses are ridiculously smart.

https://youtu.be/JOV-DlxTiFU
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2018 01:16 pm
Curious behavior of octopus.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AmEKoA1nYSI
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 02:33 pm
An octopus finds two cockle shells and joins them together for a shelter. I've seen this while skin diving for scallops in Florida. A small octopus joined two scallop shells together and lived in it. I picked it up thinking it was a live scallop.

https://youtu.be/HDab2mX5mXA
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 06:36 pm
Octopus eggs hatching.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHuTElRwmo
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2018 01:50 am
I firmly believe that when Humans are long extinct that the cephalopod's will be the next dominant species on Earth.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2018 01:28 am
Octopus camouflage and hunting.

https://youtu.be/5oExwxkuT_c
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2018 06:47 pm
Octopus swims toward scuba diver and is intrigued with him for some reason.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d4N_CBnuc5g
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2018 11:22 am
Octopus gets new toy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PngaXmfpYw4
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2018 11:27 pm
I know everybody has seen this a million times, but I couldn't resist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nx61WPbEqcY
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Apr, 2018 02:09 am
Watch "Scientists discovered a never-before-seen octopus 'city' — and they named it 'Octlantis'" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/VICz4PiA3sI


Scientists develop program to interpret and translate octopus feelings and gestures into speech.

Octopus Gesture to Speech - YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KMM4XYteqWI

0 Replies
 
Patterner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2018 07:25 am
"Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness", by Peter Godfrey-Smith, is a pretty good book.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2018 12:33 pm
@Patterner,
Sounds interesting. Could you expand on it a little?
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2018 02:01 am
I pulled this off of Goodreads.

Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness
by Peter Godfrey-

A philosopher dons a wet suit and journeys into the depths of consciousness

Peter Godfrey-Smith is a leading philosopher of science. He is also a scuba diver whose underwater videos of warring octopuses have attracted wide notice. In this book, he brings his parallel careers together to tell a bold new story of how nature became aware of itself. Mammals and birds are widely seen as the smartest creatures on earth. But one other branch of the tree of life has also sprouted surprising intelligence: the cephalopods, consisting of the squid, the cuttlefish, and above all the octopus. New research shows that these marvelous creatures display remarkable gifts. What does it mean that intelligence on earth has evolved not once but twice? And that the mind of the octopus is nonetheless so different from our own? Combining science and philosophy with firsthand accounts of his cephalopod encounters, Godfrey-Smith shows how primitive organisms bobbing in the ocean began sending signals to each other and how these early forms of communication gave rise to the advanced nervous systems that permit cephalopods to change colors and human beings to speak. By tracing the problem of consciousness back to its roots and comparing the human brain to its most alien and perhaps most remarkable animal relative, Godfrey-Smith's Other Minds sheds new light on one of our most abiding mysteries.
0 Replies
 
Patterner
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2018 05:20 am
Sorry about that. I've recently become addicted to Spades, and don't get around to other things. Very Happy

Peter Godfrey-Smith wrote:
Cephalopods are an island of mental complexity in the sea of invertebrate animals. Because our most recent common ancestor was so simple and lies so far back, cephalopods are an independent experiment in the evolution of large brains and complex behavior. If we can make contact with cephalopods as sentient beings, it is not because of a shared history, not because of kinship, but because evolution built minds twice over. This is probably the closest we will come to meeting an intelligent alien.


Here's a fascinating thing:
Peter Godfrey-Smith wrote:
Vertebrate brains all have a common architecture. When vertebrate brains are compared to octopus brains, all bets - or rather, all mappings - are off. There is no part-by-part correspondence between the parts of their brains and ours. Indeed, octopuses have not even collected the majority of their neurons inside their brains; most of the neurons are found in their arms.

Which leads to embodied cognition. This might be old hat to some of you, but I'm very new to all of this stuff. I never heard of this until I read this book a couple months ago. Here's some good stuff:
Peter Godfrey-Smith wrote:
One central idea is that our body itself, rather than our brain, is responsible for some of the "smartness" with which we handle the world. Our body's own structure encodes some information about the environment and how we must deal with it, so not all this information needs to be stored in the brain. The joints and angles of our limbs, for example, make motions such as walking naturally arise. Knowing how to walk is partly a matterof having the right body. As Hillel Chiel and Randall Beer put it, an animal's body structure creates both constraints and opportunities, which guide its action.

Some octopus researchers have been influenced by this way of thinking, especially Benny Hochner. Hochner believes these ideas can help us grasp the octopus/human differences. Octopuses have a different embodiment, which has consequences for their different kind of psychology.

I agree with that last point. But the doctrines of the embodied cognition movement do not really fit well with the strangeness of the octopus's way of being. Defenders of embodied cognition often say that the body's shape and organization encodes information. But that requires that there be a shape to the body, and an octopus has less of a fixed shape than other animals. The same animal can stand tall on its arms, squeeze through a hole little bigger than its eye, become a streamlined missile, or fold itself to fit into a jar. When advocates of embodied cognition such as Chiel and Beer give examples of how bodies provide resources for intelligent action, they mention the distances between parts of a body (which aid perception) and the locations and angles of joints. The octopus body has none of those things - no fixed distances between parts, no joints, no natural angles. Further, the relevant contrast in the octopus case is not "body rather than brain" - the contrast usually emphasized in discussions of embodied cognition. In an octopus, the nervous system as a whole is a more relevant object than the brain: it's not clear where the brain itself begins and ends, and the nervous system runs all through the body. The octopus is suffused with nervousness; the body is not a separate thing that is controlled by the brain or nervous system.

The octopus, indeed, has a "different embodiment," but one so unusual that it does not fit any of the standard views in this area. The usual debate is between those who see the brain as an all-powerful CEO and those who emphasize the intelligence stored in the body itself. Both views rely on a distinction between brain-based and body-based knowledge. The octopus lives outside both the usual pictures. Its embodiment prevents it from doing the sorts of things that are usually emphasized in the embodied cognition theories. The octopus, in a sense, is disembodied. That word makes it sound immaterial, which is not, of course, what I have in mind. It has a body, and is a material object. But the body itself is protean, all possibility; it has none of the costs and gains of a constraining and action-guiding body. The octopus lives outside the usual body/brain divide.
The differences between us and the octopus are incredible. Not just between the physical structures of the bodies and the distribution of the brain within the body, but also the very different environments we live in. The idea that there can be any common ground where our minds are concerned might seem impossible. But, of course, we both: are physical beings, subject to things like gravity; need to eat; need to perceive our surroundings... So finding at least a little common ground might not be completely unexpected.

As far as embodied cognition goes, imo, the lack of a fixed shape, distance between body parts, and natural angles shouldn't matter. The body will still create constraints and opportunities. We just need to learn to recognize what they are. But if the idea is to differentiate between knowledge of the body and knowledge of the brain, but the brain is distributed throughout the body, then there are not two different types of knowledge to differentiate between.


I found this bit very interesting, too:
Peter Godfrey-Smith wrote:
Octopuses and other cephalopods have exceptionally good eyes, and these are eyes built on the same general design as ours. Two experiments in the evolution of large nervous systems landed on similar ways of seeing.
------
The most dramatic similarity is the eyes. Our common ancestor may have had a pair of eyespots, but it did not have eyes anything like ours. Vertebrates and cephalopods separately evolved "camera" eyes, with a lens that focuses an image on a retina.
Evolution did very similar things with us and the octopus, twice.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2018 03:29 pm
Studying the intelligence and learning ability of the octopus. 45 minute video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_G6eH1KDl0s
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 May, 2018 01:58 am
http://fortbendlifestylesandhomes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Surrealism-Watercolor-by-Armando-Castelan.jpg
Armando Castelan
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2018 07:23 pm
https://i.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt4FUZqQNEJ9uIo/giphy.webp
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