God Religion and everithing else

What if your not sure?

I ponder the question of faith/god/religion constantly. I'm almost too afraid to discuss it.

Until xmas 2003 I was an ardent atheist. I didn't see a ghost or witness a miracle or anything like that...just something happened that made me question beliefs I had held for so long...it came as quite a shock.

I watch the 'god' threads, I'm interested in what people have to say (for and against) as I will watch this one.

Agnostic green it is then (I wonder if I could get my house painted agnostic green, or what about a nice shade of believer blue or randi red?)

Most bizarre occurances have a rational reason behind them. It's hard to believe in ghosts/hauntings/feelings of magical power in places when you know that EM radiation of the right frequency striking the temporal lobe of the brain artificially induces this feeling.

It's hard to believe in UFO abductions when you know about sleep paralysis disorder which is when you don't wake up properly for a few minutes which causes an inability to move, hallucinations of loud (indistinct) noise and bright lights.

I'm agnostic. I concede that there is more in heaven and earth than dreamt of in my philosophy, yet that doesn't make me any less a skeptic when someone else claims that THEY have the answers.

That's just the kind of thing I want people to say to me!

Can you be bothered if I post you my story?

I need a fellow agnostic to discuss brains and sh*t, how about it?

Of course. I can always be bothered... I have WAY too much time on my hands and a shelf full of psychology textbooks

Sorry, not a fan of red or blue. Green is my favorite, but I don't agree with what it represents in this thread.

Let's go purple. Mmmkay.

I don't believe in God. In any God. Nor any chance of a God. I don't believe it is unexplainable how we all got here, and I feel no void because of my 'lack' of faith. Like you, I stick with facts (Science) and I keep a skeptical-eye on religion. I practice Buddhism, though that is more of a philosophy than anything else. They have no quarrels over God, nor over ghosts. It's more 'whatever you believe, is fine.'

As far as the ghosts go, no. I've never seen one. I don't believe in one because I've never seen any credible proof. I've heard some damn good stories, and I do get freaked out whenever my best friend calls me up at 2 a.m. just to say, "there's a shadowy man in your corner," but until I see for myself (which will, admitedly, scare the living **** out of me), I am a non-believer.

smorgs please post your story it would be interesting
Sanctuary i don't know a lot about buddhism but full concentration in it can produce amazing results i have sean a test buddhists meditate for an houer then they are sent outside in the snow with blackets soaked in ice cold water on their bare baks at this point most people go into hipothermya they DRIYD the sheets

I do believe there is God, yes, but a personal God that is within us all, as Jesus the Christ said. This part of us can be awakened and we can live from it, instead of from our personality. I think we are all connected and that the whole of that is connected with this "God."

I DO NOT see that religion teaches that, and maybe it isn't their business to. A lot of people don't believe in God because of what's said in the Old Testament. But, If it don't look like a duck, don't act like a duck, don't sound like a duck, then it ain't a duck! It is impossible for "God" to kill people, be jealous, etc. etc. But, then, maybe all those teachings were for another time, another people, so why do we keep hanging on?

All of us wonder, Brooke. Welcome to this place.

Spawn, tell us your story. Maybe I've seen a "ghost" I just don't know as it seemed to be actually happening but in a dream.

OK...I was brought up a Catholic, all my education was convent based. To cut a long story short, I developed a healthy disdain for any religious dogma. Was a confirmed atheist. So is my partner.

October 2003 I became seriously ill. I was rushed into hospital, where I spent the next four months. I was most ill at Christmas; I had developed septicaemia, and was taken to theatre to have a Hickman line put into my neck as my veins had collapsed. A combination of morphine and a very high temperature caused me to hallucinate and 'fit'.

As I had been taken into hospital in a rush. I was still on record as being a catholic (from years ago). Consequently a nun came to see me. She showed me a picture of her and mother Teresa (whom she had worked with for a number of years) she left me a religious medal.

The trouble was I thought she wasn't real - I had been hallucinating so badly, I just thought she was one of the more benign ones. At this time, I was just drifting in and out. I saw scarab beetles, colours would flash and visitors and doctors had strange stretched voices. My hearing was also affected by my temperature. I find it really hard to describe it now, and I've never talked about those days to anyone. I feel 'upset' if I even think about it.

Anyway, on Christmas night, my sister came to stay with me for the night. The hospital was very quiet; all but the sickest had gone home. It was very late...the nun came again, she and my sister (an atheist, I have to point out) talked quietly about her experiences in India with Mother Teresa. They must have thought I was asleep but I was listening to their 'far away' voices and the beeping of my monitor. The nun had asked my sister to join in a prayer. I remember the first two lines: Be quiet, be still. I had recently been given morphine and I could 'feel' it. I had developed a mantra for my head. I would tell myself `endure this; this will pass` over and over during times of despair. I started to feel very warm (not unusual - I had a very high temperature) but it felt different. I could feel a loud whooshing in my ears and I was suddenly aware of being in a 'vortex'... the only way I can describe it. The room was spinning, but I was perfectly still and safe in the centre it was very bright, but not the kind that hurts your eyes...it was yellowish. I felt very calm, had no apprehension, no need for my mantra, I felt well and wide awake...but elsewhere.

The wonderful sensation came to an abrupt end when a nurse came in, spilling light into the room. The smoke alarm had gone off in my room. We couldn't hear it, but it had 'alarmed' at the nurse's station. I was awake and felt very different. The nurse asked my sister (and the nun!) if anyone had been smoking. "Certainly not" my sister answered (very indignant). She said the room had become very hot and she had opened a window (I was not aware of this). Before she left the nun kissed me and said that my angel was with me.

My sister stayed with me the rest of the night and sang me all the songs she could remember. We have always been close, but that night is the closest we have ever been. I know she knows 'something happened' that night. We have talked a little about it; of course we both put it down to brain things and drugs. However, she does refer to it as that 'strange' night.

Not that simple for me though, I don't know what it was...electrical activity in my brain, the high temp, morphine, the 'lull' of the prayer. But what I experienced felt very different to the hallucinations. I'm squirming as I type this...but I believe something or somebody came to help in my hour of need. And I simply don't know why my brain is telling me to believe this.

Rather than being a positive thing...it has left me in turmoil. Save for the small scar on my neck, I am well, though I was off work for 11 months. But it has changed me completely. I can't rationalise what happened, and that bothers me. I've never discussed how I feel about this. My partner says it was reverting back to what I found comforting during a time of great stress. I know he would be uncomfortable if I found a 'faith'. I can't go into church...I tried when I was better, but I felt a surge of emotion as soon as I went in (I was apprehensive in the car outside) I knew I would break down and just cry my heart out if I stayed...so I left, and haven't been back.

All the above is true.

I would welcome ANY comments ANYBODY has on this.

Please excuse any spelling errors...spell-check does not work and I'm v. tired.

Goodnight, and in the words of the great Dave Allen...may your god go with you! :wink:

Smorgs,

Glad you recovered.

I do think that what you experienced was the morphine, most likely mixed with severe emotional trauma. I am just skeptical about these things and, if it had happened to me, most likely would have dismissed it as the above.

If you find happiness within the feeling of being watched over though, then believe in it wholely. All faith is a matter of mind and belief - it can't be dismissed no matter how many people disagree, how many facts discourage, and no matter how irrational it may appear. If you believe it, then treasure it.

People would like to think that religious experience is something outside of the ordinary, that it could not possibly be a product of their own brain. Yet "near death experiences" can be artificially created in g-force simulators. The experiences of feeling a divine presence nearby can be caused by radiation striking the temporal lobe.

These things are not mysteries to science. They're just our brain doing slightly strange things. If funny chemicals were in your brain it's no wonder that it would act in an unusual way. As an occasional recreational drug user, trust me, I understand how the feelings chemicals provoke can not only seem completely unlike a real world experience (and therefore perhaps divine/magical), but can also have life-changing ramifications.

Those things that I have experienced in altered states have been included into my mind in ways no other experiences have or will. They continue to affect my thoughts even to this day and Morphine is way more powerful than anything I've ever taken. Not to mention that you were injured at the time and having once been religious are likely to have your subconcious recreate those images.

I'm sorry to say this, since it's clear to me how powerful the experience was to you, but I don't see anything odd or unusual in the experience you had. Sorry. I imagine if I were to describe any of the feelings I've had on drugs to you they would sound the same as your story does to me.

Thanks for your thoughtful posts. It has really helped me to receive dispasionate replies. I too realise that circumstance and strong drugs made my brain cells fire and 'showed' me things that were not there.

I can't discuss it with partner, he's afraid I've gone religious, I havn't, I'm just having difficulty coping with the profundity of it.

The trouble is I didn't find comfort in being 'watched over' it just made me confused. Do you think I should receive some counselling? Might help me rationalise things more. I don't really talk about my illness to my family, I have difficulty with the emotions I feel about that time. Maybe I should go somewhere quiet and just cry as much as I want. I always feel as if I'm holding it back. When I returned to work, I asked people not to talk about it - I was afraid of 'letting go' in front of them.

Once again - thanks.

in my opinion this is the kind of thing that should not be kept in or it will only get worse if needs be cry don't try to forget it and talk to people you know well (as in not an internet form group) like you partner

on the story i am wordless i think that it was only the drug but i wasn't there

if something like that had happened to me i probably would have totaly dismissed it but only because i don't belive in enithing that cannot be supported by science even if i have seen it

about the church bit go to a church even if you start cryng it is still good to go to a chirch and if you can find the nun that was with you then talk to her

Smorgs, what is wrong with crying? It's as if it would be helpful for you to go into a church, and cry as you feel like doing. Then, you may understand why you need to cry.

Counseling would be good, but who? The nun? Some day, I think, you can just accept that your angel was there. You were healed! That is something to live on, forever, and you may be surprised how your life may reflect this experience some day.

Can't get over, though, why you are not joyful to be alive, and to have had such a touching experience with your sister...! And, the actual heat in the room, the smell of smoke. It was just not your time to go and (whom or whatever) left some evidence for you. You must have something rather special to accomplish.

That's the strange thing Sunlover...the room didn't smell of smoke, the alarm just went off (fault). I am definately joyful at surviving it. Please don't get me wrong. I am happy and joyful, more than I have ever been. My body was healed, but my mind was left wide open.

you need to think about how this has changed your position on the whole issue i think just this talk might have helped a bit but to really get over it you need to except it either as an act or god or as a result of a drug

It did help...very much, and I thank you for the opportunity to discuss (at last).

Sarah
x

Smogs, just read the last few posts here and see what you meant. Now, (after the experience) you have an "open mind" where before you may not have. That is quite a gift in itself.

Glad you shared.