7
   

Keep someone off drugs or keep someone away from drugs

 
 
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 03:51 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You can't keep off unless you've been on.


You can repeat it 100 times, Dizzy, but that won't make it right.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 04:43 pm
I wonder if this is a British/American thing. In British converstaion, if someone says they are "off" something - booze, cigarettes, meat, etc, it is completely understood that this means they have recently given that thing up. I can see that keeping off something does not necessarily imply have been on it in the first place.
perennialloner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 04:44 pm
@izzythepush,
In my mind, if someone needs to be kept off or away from drugs, there is an implied relationship, whether or not it exists, between the person and drugs that is not, I don't think, intimated if the person is told to just stay off or especially if they are told to stay away from drugs. The nuances between "off" and "away" do change in relation to the verb they're attached to.

In my response I at least alluded to the nuances I spoke of, and Max definitely talked about them, which is why I made that point.

Also, I think I agree with Layman. I don't see why to stay off something you must have been on it at some point. Wouldn't that mean to stay away from something you'd have to have been near it at some point?

Child: I've never been on drugs.
Parent: Good. Keep staying off them.

Can you really not stay off if you've never been on?
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 04:56 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

I wonder if this is a British/American thing. In British converstaion, if someone says they are "off" something - booze, cigarettes, meat, etc, it is completely understood that this means they have recently given that thing up. I can see that keeping off something does not necessarily imply have been on it in the first place.


I agree with this, but I don't think it's likely to be a british/american thing. Often it IS, in fact, the case that you've now off something you've previously been on. And this is often implied by the context.

It's just wrong to say that first being on is always a necessary prerequisite to being off, that's all.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 05:21 pm
@perennialloner,
You didn't allude to nuance you skirted around them, and now you're using a very torturous example to fit in with your definition.

No one says, 'Keep staying off them,' it's not at all natural, it's contrived.

perennialloner
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 06:51 pm
@izzythepush,
If I'd skirted around or avoided nuance, I wouldn't have put forth a situation in which I think the fine distinctions would matter.

My definition of staying off is the action of not staying, or being, on. And I don't think it's all that controversial.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 06:57 pm
@perennialloner,
Good catch.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 07:00 pm
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:


Child: I've never been on drugs.
Parent: Good. Keep staying off them.



in context, that works well
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 08:57 pm
@layman,
I agree with Layman (but only because in this case he is right). Taking about ways to "keep kids off drugs" is common usage with the understanding that these kids have never used drugs. There are thousands of recent examples from good writers in reputable publications. Saying you will "keep someone off drugs" does not imply that they have used drugs in the past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/open-gently/201609/simple-way-keep-your-kids-drugs

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1021927831675906280

This has become another ridiculous argument based more on the personalities involved than on the very clear facts.

Layman is correct. Izzy is wrong.



0 Replies
 
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 09:15 pm
@paok1970,
Quote:
Is it "to keep someone off drugs" or "to keep someone away from drugs"?
If both are possible, do they mean the same thing?
If so, which is more commonly used?


The first phrase has 88 google hits and the second phrase has 4 google hits.

The likely intention of an author who uses one of these phrases, in the absence of further context, is to convey the same meaning ie. abstinence.

Purists advise on language prescriptivism, da others advise on language descriptivism.

I'd recommend rephrasing to eg. "drug free".



My milk shake brings all the boys to the yard,
And they're like,
Its better than yours,
Damn right its better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 09:19 pm
@ekename,
I was gunna watch that vid because the Babe looked kinda HOT and because the lyrics wasn't lyin.

Says it's been blocked in my country on copyright grounds. Sheeit. Where you from?
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 09:23 pm
@layman,


I got you covered Layman. We need more songs about ice cream beverages.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 09:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I got you covered Layman. We need more songs about ice cream beverages.


Good work, Max! That Babe, and the other sisters in that vid, is indeed HOT, eh!?

Here's another classic, from 1953, with the same theme, eh?

paok1970
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:17 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Good work, Max! That Babe, and the other sisters in that vid, is indeed HOT, eh!?

Here's another classic, from 1953, with the same theme, eh?


Layman: Aren't you from the U.S.? I thought that concluding/ending a sentence with "eh?" was Canadian English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh

layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:32 pm
@paok1970,
paok1970 wrote:

Layman: Aren't you from the U.S.? I thought that concluding/ending a sentence with "eh?" was Canadian English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh

Wiki aint knowin nuthin about cajuns out on the bayou in Louisana, USA, it seems, eh?

Well, maybe a little, but not much:

Quote:
Today, the Cajuns make up a significant portion of south Louisiana's population and have exerted an enormous impact on the state's culture...Since their establishment in Louisiana, the Cajuns have developed their own dialect, Cajun French, and developed a vibrant culture including folkways, music, and cuisine. Strong Cajun roots, influence, and culture can also be found in parts of Southern Mississippi. These areas include; Bay St. Louis, Pass Christian, Gulfport, Gautier, Natchez, D'Iberville, and Biloxi, Mississippi.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajuns

Not to even mention Creoles:

Quote:
Louisiana Creole people (French: Créoles de Louisiane, Spanish: Gente de Louisiana Creole), are persons descended from the inhabitants of colonial Louisiana during the period of both French and Spanish rule. The term creole was originally used by French settlers to distinguish persons born in Louisiana from those born in the mother country or elsewhere. As in many other colonial societies around the world, creole was a term used to mean those who were "native-born". It also came to be applied to African-descended slaves and Native Americans who were born in Louisiana.

Colonists referred to themselves and enslaved blacks who were native-born as creole, to distinguish them from new arrivals from France and Spain as well as Africa.[2] American Indians, such as the Creek people, intermixed with Creoles also, making three races present in the ethnic group.

Like “Cajun,” the term “Creole” is a popular name used to describe cultures in the southern Louisiana area.

“Creole” is still used to describe the heritage and customs of the various people who settled Louisiana during early, French colonial times. In addition to the French Canadians, the amalgamated Creole culture in southern Louisiana includes influences from the Chitimacha, Houma, and other native tribes, enslaved West Africans, Spanish-speaking Isleños (Canary Islanders), and French-speaking Gens de Couleur Libres from the Caribbean


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Creole_people
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:34 pm
@layman,
Among other things, Creoles and Cajuns had unique (for them times) views about race, eh?:

Quote:
Particularly in the slave society of the American South, slavery had become a racial caste. Whites classified society into whites and blacks (the latter associated strongly with slaves).

The French-speaking mixed-race population came to be called "Creoles of color". It was said that "New Orleans persons of color were far wealthier, more secure, and more established than freed unmixed Black Creoles and Cajuns elsewhere in Louisiana." By law they enjoyed most of the same rights and privileges as whites. They could and often did challenge the law in court and won cases against whites.

Race did not play as central a role as it does in Anglo-American culture: oftentimes, race was not a concern, but instead, family standing and wealth were key distinguishing factors in New Orleans and beyond. The groups (Latin and Anglo New Orleaneans) had “two different schools of politics [and differed] radically...One aspires to equality, the other to identity. One will forget that he is a Negro in order to think that he is a man; the other will forget that he is a man to think that he is a Negro.”

After the United States acquired the area in the Louisiana Purchase, mixed-race Creoles of Color resisted American attempts to impose their binary racial culture. In the American South slavery had become virtually a racial caste, in which most people of any African descent were considered to be lower in status.




0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2018 05:56 am
@layman,
Quote:
Today, the Cajuns make up a significant portion of south Louisiana's population and have exerted an enormous impact on the state's culture...Since their establishment in Louisiana, the Cajuns have developed their own dialect, Cajun French, and developed a vibrant culture including folkways, music, and cuisine.


A buncha black boys from Nawlins singin a tune, zydeco style, written by a white boy from Alabama about cajun cuisine, music, and good-time culture, eh?:

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2018 08:59 am
@paok1970,
Quote:
Layman: Aren't you from the U.S.? I thought that concluding/ending a sentence with "eh?" was Canadian English.


There are different dialects that have similar features... it can be a part of more than one creole.

In Canada there was a mixture of English and French. In Cajun country that was a mixture of English and French. I wonder if this is just a coincidence.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2018 09:04 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There are different dialects that have similar features... it can be a part of more than one creole.

In Canada there was a mixture of English and French. In Cajun country that was a mixture of English and French. I wonder if this is just a coincidence.


It aint no coincidence, eh, Max? It's them damn Frogs that started it all, and they managed to infiltrate a lot of areas, ya know?

All along the Missisippi, clean up into Illinois and Missouris (St. Louis, for example), there are small towns with Frog names, even a long way from the river. These here days, though, nunna them have a Frog pronunciation.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2018 11:15 am
@layman,


Quote:
You don't frighten us you English pig dogs!
Go and boil your bottoms! Son of a silly person!
I'll blow my nose at you, so called Arthur king! You and all your silly
English cunnnnnnnnnigits!
Tthppbpbb!!(making fart nosies with tongue)
...

I don't wanna talk to you no more you empty headed animal foot
Trough water! I'll fart in your general direction! Your mother was a
Hamster and you father smelt of eldiberry!!!!
0 Replies
 
 

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