Time and causality

Re: Time and causality


So, causality is eternality then? This explains nothing. It's circular reasoning.

the concept that there has to have been a 'beginning', and the corollary implication that there will be an 'end!' (not quite as popular), are examples of the anthropomorphosizing of 'thought' itself.

The human animal is, and has always been, preoccupied with the concept of its own 'prime' importance - everything is about 'us' (i almost said 'them', not wishing to be associated with this myopic approach to infinity).

If one were to really think about it, the temporal continuum, where everything proceeds stoically on from never having started, to never going to stop, on a universal (or should i say 'Ultiversal', or 'Infiniversal') scale, makes far more sense; and is more in keeping with what one would expect/infer to be the case.

There only needs to have been a beginning, if there were a 'plan' leading to 'us', the pinnacle of evolution (yeah, right! ).

[and now that 'we' have been reached/happened, there is (surely) no need to go on
- the price of perfection! ]

It has nothing to do with anthropomorphology or anthropomorphism. You just threw that in there to make it sound good, cosmogenically speaking.:wink:

not at all - i am never concerned about how something 'sounds', just that it conveys my sense (and sense) of the nature of the chaos in which we exist.

OK then, what has anthropomorphism got to do with Causality?

very insightful post. i agree with you completely and challenge you to go one step further.

yes causaulity is the underlying phenemena that drives the unverse forward and we try to map it's motion with the term time. it is in essence what's driving evolution, the building up of more and more complex aggregates of compounds (aggregates initially catalyzes by lightning). These aggregates accumilated into primordial bacteria and slowly into all life as we know it.

For more information on this, read up on "chemical evolution" and the experiments that demonstrated this process underlying all life over 80 yrs ago. Darwin demonstrated that we evolved from monkeys, but if we go farther back, these monkeys evolved from bacteria, which evolved from simple compounds, which were just particulate matter that came from rocks. We, not just our physical selves but our mental selves, all evolved from rocks. The processes underlying the functioning of our brain are the same ones underlying all objects in the universe. The notion of the mind, a soul, sentience, free will are all illusions of what in essence breaks down to extremely complex causal reactions. This is something that science has been increasingly pointing to. And it's a belief for which I am constantly critiqued here. But it is true.

As for where it all begin. That's what the singularity at the big bang is meant to explain. At the point of singularity, all matter and energy in the universe was one united mass. Without any other objects in the universe to interact wiht this mass, obviously there could be no causality. Once that mass exploded to create all universe, causality began.

If there was no Cause then where did the matter come from?

If you read my post to be human-glorifying, BoGoWo, then you have misread it.

Centroles. The way I see it the Big Bang is not the beginning, it is merely an effect. What may cause such an effect?

I think of the universe as a duality. There is matter, and there is void. (Not knowing the nature of this I chose to call it void.)

Imagine matter trapped in this void until the pressure of the matter is greater than the pressure of the void containing it. It explodes, and matter is thrown in all directions. The situation reverses. As the matter is flung outwards it will continue to travel away from it's startingpoint until the pull of the stretching void is greater than the thrust of the explosion. Then the matter will be pulled back until the pressure is so high that it explodes. This is a pulse that never stops, because it is causa sui. The cause of itself.

Causality cannot be explained from one act to another. It is a set of actions. The term itself does not allow a beginning or an end.

Ah, but you've neglected some physical laws here. A pendulum cannot swing forever, implying an end, or at least an eventual cease to the motion.

Am I idaho? How long can an object maintain it's speed in space if there's no friction? The environment on earth is not the same environment as the rest of the world.

The rules that govern a chess game are not apliccable outside the game.

Gravity, inertia, objects crashing into eachother that don't "bounce" perfectly. Perhaps objects get flung out far enough by the outward thrust that there isn't enough pull to overcome their inertia to start the back toward the center. Any number of things can happen.

Any number of things can and will happen. But you are thinking in too small terms. Did you understand the part about causa sui?

I understand what it means - but it's circular logic.

Yeah, but it's a circular subject...