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Touchy subject of Brit's royal links with Nazi Germany

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 11:20 am
smorgs

Proving that the Bush family included a Bunch of Sc** Bags is not necessary. It is well known. However, how does that mitigate the actions of the princeling.
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 11:30 am
au1929, no, your right it doesn't, and I'm not defending him!

I just thought it was interesting.

I completely condemn the thoughtless and stupid thing he did. I know that some people take the view that he's only 20 - but no 20 year old (or any other age) I know would do such a thing.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 12:10 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I think what the kid did WAS disgusting, and I am pleased that his father is taking him to Auschwitz, so that he can see, first hand, that Nazism is not a joke.



Official Site of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum

(Btw: quite a few BNP members have been seen/photographed e.g. wearing a British Movement jacket with a swastika armband or similar.)



In Germany, the costume scandal is likely to renew complaints that British perceptions of the country remain skewed by the Nazi era.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 12:52 pm
Diana has been described as a commoner: just because you have a "Hon." in front of your name, does not make you royal.

As for stupidity: even a 20 year old can not be that stupid. Good for Charles for sending him to Auschwitz.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 01:31 pm
Walter, it must be difficult to traipse through the land mines that comprise modern German history. You do it gracefully.
I 've stated this before: Except for the strange history of his marriage, I think Prince Charles is an icon of modern England. His philanthrophy and work for the betterment of all strata of society is laudable.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 07:42 pm
I agree with Panzade.
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 02:30 am
I think that having an Earl for a Dad, Countess for a Mum, being a Lady...hardly qualifies you as a commoner! :wink:
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 02:59 am
Code or Script:
http://www.throneout.com/images/142.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:11 am
Quote:
Prince to be sent to Holocaust exhibition

By Terry Kirby, Chief reporter
15 January 2005


Prince Harry is expected to be sent on a private visit to a Holocaust memorial in order to understand the offence given by his wearing of a Nazi uniform at a fancy dress party.

According to royal sources, any trip would be made after the current furore has died down and could be in the company of his brother, Prince William, who is now said to feel that he should share some blame for the incident. Although there is an extensive display at the Imperial War Museum, the most likely place for such a visit in Britain is the Beth Shalom Holocaust Centre in Nottingham, which extended an invitation to the Prince to visit its exhibition and meet survivors yesterday.

A trip to Auschwitz is less likely, although not completely ruled out, and it was made clear that Clarence House would not agree to calls that the Prince should accompany his uncle, the Earl of Wessex, on a pre-planned trip to the death camp later this month for the ceremony to mark the 60th anniversary of its liberation. The Queen will be meeting Holocaust survivors in London on the same day.

Meanwhile, Clarence House yesterday attempted to draw a line under the incident, which provoked international outrage and condemnation by politicians from all parties, by firmly rejecting suggestions that the Prince, 20 and third in line to the throne, should make a further apology in person. A statement issued by Clarence House stressed that the "heartfelt" apology issued on Wednesday night had been accepted by Jewish groups. The Prince of Wales made no comment while on an official engagement to meet flood victims in Carlisle.

A Clarence House source said: "We have not ruled anything out and will give consideration to a number of invitations we have received in due course. A trip to something such as a Holocaust centre remains a possibility.

"Prince William feels as any brother would about the matter, that he shares some of the responsibility for what happened."

Dr James Smith, the chief executive of the Beth Shalom Holocaust Centre, said yesterday: "We are not demanding that Prince Harry makes a further public statement - we should accept his apology instead of forcing him to face the cameras. I would much rather know that he understood why it was such a lapse of judgement."

He added: "For that reason we will extend an invitation to him to visit the Holocaust Centre, meet with survivors and make a trip to Auschwitz, but only once the attention has died down. His actions have done an enormous amount to generate debate around the issues raised by Holocaust Memorial Day, and that has been very positive. But now it is time to reflect on the lessons the Holocaust has for all of us - and to give Prince Harry the space to do so too."

The centre, which is partly funded by National Lottery money, is the only one of its kind in the country and allows all visitors the chance to meet Holocaust survivors after touring the exhibition.

Jonathan Sacks, the UK's chief Rabbi, said it was imperative that the lessons of the Holocaust and the Second World War were not only taught but understood. He stressed that he believed wearing a swastika was in extremely poor taste but said: "I note that Prince Harry has recognised this."

It was disclosed yesterday that Prince Harry was accompanied in his trip to a Cotswold fancy dress hire shop by his brother, William, 22, where he rented the uniform of the Afrika Corps. His brother hired a leopard outfit. Both attended the Saturday night party given by the family of one of their friends, Harry Meade, son of the showjumper Richard Meade, where the photograph which appeared on the front of The Sun on Wednesday was taken.

The Prince, who was laying low yesterday at his Highgrove home, also received backing from his aunt, Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York. She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Harry is a fine young man. He needs to be supported now. It is time for the press to back off. I know what it is like to have very bad press and be continually criticised - it is very tiring and unpleasant."

His fathers' advisers are hoping they can now keep a tight rein on the activities of the Prince before he goes to Sandhurst for his one-year officer training course in May, which was postponed because of a bad knee. Although some have suggested he should now withdraw, others believe the training will impose the discipline the Prince needs.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 04:08 pm
Quote:
Saturday January 15

Prince Harry condemned in poll

LONDON (Reuters) - Almost three out of four Britons believe Prince Harry was wrong to wear a Nazi uniform to a costume party, according to an opinion poll on the gaffe that provoked worldwide outrage.

A majority questioned by the Sunday Mirror also thought that Harry's elder brother, Prince William, should have stopped him making such a choice of uniform.

Harry, who is third in line to the throne, stirred up an international furore when photos of him wearing a swastika at a costume party appeared in the Sun newspaper.

Harry, younger son of Charles and the late Princess Diana, said in a statement he was sorry if he had caused any offence over his "poor choice" of costume, but politicians have called for him to make a public apology.

Both princes were reprimanded by Charles but royal sources said their father thinks Harry's written apology was sufficient.

Unlike the gaffe-prone Harry, William rarely puts a foot wrong and is popular in Britain.

But The Sunday Mirror poll, compiled by ICM, showed that 55 percent believed William should have stopped his brother. Harry's choice was condemned by 71 percent of those questioned.
Source
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Don1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 09:19 am
This young man has inherited his grandads knack of complete lack of tact, he may be young, stupid, and tactless and grow out of it, and become a fine ambassador for Britain.

Or he may follow in his Grandfathers footsteps and become as big a moron as Phil the Greek who cant open his mouth without offending some nation in the world.

My bet is that he will follow tradition and become a fornicating whore like his father, grandfather, and so on back till the days the "Royal" family began

What a bunch of mongrels this bunch are.

I know your feelings Panzade, and I assure you that my comments are not intended to inflame you, but we all have our opinions, and mine differ from yours a lot.

Don't be annoyed at my opinions, it wont change them, just as yours won't change mine.

That doesn't sound quite right, but you know what I mean.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 09:33 am
At ease don!
I've been on this forum long enough to grasp the difference between opinions and dogma.

Trust me, a lot of Yanks feel about "W" as you do about charlie.

My view from across the pond is no more valid than yours. And to be charitable...probably less.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 09:48 am
I wish we knew if it was bigotry or just incredible insensitivity. He is reckless and undisciplined. He may not have given a thought to what it would mean to people. People dress as vampires, the devil, I've actually seen a costume of Hitler. Does that mean he is subscribing to the actions of the object of the costume--or that he considers it nothing more than a costume? It was a costume party... His brother was a leopard. Will PETA pipe up about that?

Still--I think the firestorm is a good lesson for him.

But, I would also say, as someone else here has done--these boys' lives have been hell. For all the wealth and prestige--their lives and their horrible loss--the tabloids--the hideous stories about their parents--true and not--have to have done severe damage. Maybe he's a bit disconnected.

At any rate, I hope it's just stupid, thoughtless recklessness.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:04 am
I didn't think that someone could compare wearing a Nazi costume to a leopard costume, the public uproar (from all over Europe and the world's Jewish community) to a(n im-) possible PETA "pipe".

Shocked
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:06 am
Good post Lash
We have nothing comparable. If an object of the papparazzi wants to disengage, they can move to Amish country and eventually be in the "Where Are They Now" columns. These boys will never be able to escape the press...never.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:10 am
"Where do they get these people who are advising Harry? They are either negligent, incompetent, politically suspect, or a combination of all three," said Ian Davidson, Labour MP for Glasgow Pollok.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:21 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I didn't think that someone could compare wearing a Nazi costume to a leopard costume, the public uproar (from all over Europe and the world's Jewish community) to a(n im-) possible PETA "pipe".

Shocked


Well, Walter, I was trying to point out that he didn't say he was pro-Nazi. He didn't claim any allegience to Nazism, or make a bigoted statement. He merely wore a costume. While it was in horrible taste, and is suspect and now he bears watching for evidence that he may be a bigot--we should also remember that this may be nothing more than a poor choice of costume.

Have you ever worn a costume to a party that didn't signal something about you? I've attended parties where a liberal came as Barry Goldwater (looked just like him, too)-- Sometimes you pick the antithesis of who you are. Many times the choice is about novelty and shock value.

Just because there is a public uproar doesn't mean he's actually guilty of anything worse than thoughtlessness.

I'm DEFINITELY not condoning it--but I thought another reason for his behavior should be forwarded.
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Don1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:24 am
Lash wrote:
I wish we knew if it was bigotry or just incredible insensitivity. He is reckless and undisciplined. He may not have given a thought to what it would mean to people. People dress as vampires, the devil, I've actually seen a costume of Hitler. Does that mean he is subscribing to the actions of the object of the costume--or that he considers it nothing more than a costume? It was a costume party.
.


And being from German stock he has no concept of what that means to the people of Britain? Or the Jewish nation? Or the Polish people or czechs, or the other millions murdered by the Nazis?

I would like to think it was "incredible insensitivity" but I don't.
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:36 am
Hear! hear!

I agree, we live in a democracy and a so called 'classless society'.

There is no place for the expensive, inbred, nasty, hunting/killing, archaic, out of touch bunch of tossers that the so called 'royal' family are!

I live in this democracy and I am allowed to express anti-royal opinions because I contribute to their upkeep, doing, I might add, a very hard but worthwhile job that none of the 'royals' would last five minutes in.

I object to contributing to their standard of living! Evil or Very Mad
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:39 am
I would, too. I'd chuck the lot of them in a heartbeat.

It's a ridiculous (and expensive) tradition, IMO.
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