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Doubt and Belief...

 
 
nameless
 
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Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 06:35 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
I defined 'belief' and you conveniently seem to ignore that, sallying forth to battle.

While not aimed at me - I read this as ‘how dare you ignore my definition of belief while I ignore your definition of belief’ (stating character traits is defining).

Though I can appreciate your Perspective (how you read it), my intent was quite honest; to offer a long considered and rather unusual definition of the terms that we are using. It would seem intellectually honest to at least attempt to understand that definition before moving on.

Quote:
Don’t you mean ‘the acknowledgement of doubt is the only intellectually honest perspective”?

Or with more context, one can honestly state ‘I believe #### to be true, even while I harbour some doubts relating to that belief’

The nature of a 'belief' is that it is accepted as Truth, and dealt with (defended...) as such. The greater the infection, the lesser the doubt, unto insanity.

Quote:
Is there anything you find intellectually dishonest about a belief or perspective held in such a way?

Beliefs are not 'intellectual' (rational/logical), other than that they are a malware/parasite/virus located in 'thought/ego'.

Quote:
While there is plenty of merit in such a viewpoint, it is also a flawed viewpoint (as you hold doubt to be the only intellectually honest perspective, I doubt my calling your quote flawed poses any issue. I dare say you agree that it's flawed):

If by 'viewpoint' you mean individual unique momentary Perspective, it is not possible for one to be 'flawed'.
Knowledge/experience is not doubted, and it is..

Quote:
A person can see beliefs as necessary to moving through life, even while they maintain an open mind to the flaws.

"A person can see leprosy as necessary to moving..."
A HEALTHY life is infection free.
In a Reality of 'make-believe', 'beliefs' are insanity!

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 06:58 pm
Lets prevent "malware" positivist stupidity from spreading and put the dots were they belong! This guy is an atheist but notice that he avoids certainty like hell...why? Well because he has professional instruction on the issue! There is no self justified system, not in Maths, not in Physics, not in Philosophy , not in anywhere...
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 07:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
More:
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 07:19 pm
On my early remarks on Belief and Tribalism I just found this:
(...yeah self evident but clearly necessary given the thread unfolding process...)

0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 07:45 pm
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Nov, 2017 08:43 pm
@nameless,
Quote:
Though I can appreciate your Perspective (how you read it), my intent was quite honest; to offer a long considered and rather unusual definition of the terms that we are using. It would seem intellectually honest to at least attempt to understand that definition before moving on.
Hi Nameless - this makes much more sense, as to your intent, than the original. This sort of sentiment I agree with.

Quote:
The nature of a 'belief' is that it is accepted as Truth, and dealt with (defended...) as such.
We would have to disagree on this. They can be (and usually are), but don't have to be.

Quote:
Beliefs are not 'intellectual' (rational/logical), other than that they are a malware/parasite/virus located in 'thought/ego'.
This has too many holes in it. Have you never considered:
- Scientific Theories?
- doctors diagnoses? (diagnosis is a statement of what they believe to be the case, because of x, y, z)
- people accused of murder by investigators?
- the similarities between the above, and many peoples well considered beliefs?

That so many engage in thoughtless beliefs, does not define what a belief is.

I think your analogy of thought virus' is useful to thoughtless acquisition of beliefs, as a subsection of how the human mind can acquire and defend beliefs (without engaging in intellectual honesty), but not to the matter of belief as a whole.

Perhaps you are trying to redefine what a belief actually is, in order to make your beliefs less flawed.
Quote:
If by 'viewpoint' you mean individual unique momentary Perspective, it is not possible for one to be 'flawed'.
Knowledge/experience is not doubted, and it is..
Define it as a viewpoint, a perspective, or however you want to...doing so usually activates the same issue I raised in my original post to you on the offering of differing definitions.

Quote:
Knowledge/experience is not doubted, and it is.

The problem is:
- you aren't stating any knowledge, but your beliefs; and
- your experience is subject to your own interpretation. You may have experienced it, but you must have learnt by now how flawed our interpretations of our own experiences usually are.

Quote:
"A person can see leprosy as necessary to moving..."
A HEALTHY life is infection free.
Can you not see how ironic your position is? You talk about how beliefs are a virus, about how it causes people to defend those beliefs without critical thinking....and come up with the nonsense in red as a comparison (and by extension, a defence).
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2017 08:30 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Lets prevent "malware" positivist stupidity

I'll assume that you are attempting to reply to me, as I am the only one using 'malware'.
That you must run to your teachers is a shame, because any philosopher worth the title has the ability to think for himself.
The fallacy of authority seems to feed you well.
And doesn't call names.
Now, you just bore me with your lack of intelligent well thought out understanding response, and name calling (pathetic).
Have a nice day.
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:11 am
@nameless,
Hey Bubba you have shown on more then one occasion to be stupid enough to not get the process is exactly the other way around, I rarely quote, I use my very own opinion, I don't conform with black and white definitions n strive for greyish standpoints. Unlike me you are a monochromatic idiot, a buffoon full of pretension and little brain power. I don't have time nor will nor patience to explain you stuff that is self evident. You are to be on ignore list from now on as no productive outcome is expected from exchanging any trivialities with you. Have a nice life, bye!
nameless
 
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Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2017 02:13 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
You sound like a teenager, with no intellect and all mouth.
Happy to ignore your ignorant juvenile ego!
0 Replies
 
 

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