agrote wrote:RexRed wrote:agrote wrote:Prayer, let's talk about that. Who was the guy who did the 'God experiment' about a year ago where he tested the power of prayer on terminally ill patients? Does anyone know what he found?
When I first heard about it my thoughts were as follows: If what the bible says is true (I think this guy was/is a Christian), then surely you can't just test the power of God like that. When Jesus is out in the desert the Devil asks him to prove that he's the son of God by jumping off a cliff or something doesn't he? But proof denies faith - God doesn't need to prove himself like that. So isn't the God experiment absolutely useless?
Good point agrote but... the Bible does say, prayer "and supplication". Not just prayer alone. Supplication is a "plan" on what to do to bring about the prayer's likely outcome. It is not just a head thing but it is an action thing too. Like the Bible says prayer without believing is useless. Prayer needs to be accompanied by action. For example someone may pray and say God I am ill and need healing... God will often tell them (by revelation) to call their doctor. But they did the best thing anyway, because they asked God "first". That is why God has doctors... to apply education and medical practice to treating people in a specialized manner. It is not just prayer alone but walking out on faith and "supplication". God is "first aid" but God will most likely send us to medical doctors for most treatment. It takes a willingness to live and become well and God is able to perform gifts of healing and miracles.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how this answers any of my questions... I'm a little confused.
rosborne979, jsut for the record (this isn't relevent to the discussion), I'm an agnostic, and although we share the same interpetation of that part of the bible - that faith does not require proof - I actually think that faith is a bad thing because it does not ask for proof, or strong evidence, or logical argument, or anything like that. So just so that you know, I don't agree with the bible story's message that we should have faith in God/Jesus and that we have no right to expect proof before we believe - I prefer reason to faith.
Who ever told you people the Bible does not require proof? It is not so much what you seek but how you ask... You ask for proof! Well starting with the logical truth of the answer to the question of where did this universe all come from. It certainly is not a man made universe contraption. It did not just, pop out of a balloon! It is much more complex than a cell phone. If that is not proof enough. The Bible is filled to the brim with pages upon pages of stories of people interacting with none other than this "God" that you presume is so silent. The Bible tells us what was happening two seconds before the big bang, science cannot even do that satisfactorily.
God is very active in the story of the past and continues to participate in the grand scheme of the ages. God has been very busy at times and has appeared in the clouds and spoken to multitudes of people from the sky or a mountain or a burning bush... But there are new doubters born every century. Sometimes God's only duties seem to come from proving himself to people and not so much being the heavenly father that he is. The first century apostles were aware of the nay sayers who doubt God's way and seek a sign.
They want a head trip experience with God they want God to dazzle them with a light, smoke show, taps on his shoes, top hat and cane. They want an sideshow entertainer and worldly power not a personal relationship with God Almighty. They want a sign...
What the apostles said to these nay sayers of this type was that "Christ is crucified". The Greeks were confounded... could not believe that people would run around chanting with joy that their savior is dead! This was not the logic they expected. This was not the big sign from heaven they were anticipating. Maybe a spectacle in the theatre where a few christians are fed to hungry lions will cause this God to reconsider? The apostles were aware that the greeks wanted an intellectual thing.
The jews of the time wanted a sign... Sign and intellect seekers. When the true heart was in the fact that the world had just killed God's only begotten son. This was not the thrill they sought. To hear the Christians happily preaching that "Christ is crucified" was not what the Jews or Greeks were expecting.
The Greeks would have preferred a more loftier tale of 5 headed Hydras and Hercules to say their king was crucified was foolish and to preach to the Jews that Christ is crucified is simply blasphemy when they still believe for signs that he is yet to come.
...So God cannot please these people no matter what he does because these people do not agree with the premise of the things God has done. People are searching for more then God is able/willing to give to them in their current state of meekness.
There is not one passage in the Bible that says that God does not "show" us things. This is why we are called "witnesses" in the Bible. Because we have witnessed the same things that God has shown the prophets. We know because God knows... We have seen the burning bush, we have witnessed God speaking from the mountaintops. We have laid out our piles of sticks and had God produce fire from heaven and burn the wood to ashes. We have spoken in his language and have manifested the gift within that God has created. We speak to God and God speaks mysteries to us. We are witnesses of God and ambassadors for Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Comment:
You are trying to "study" God... That is like the "Ford" trying to study "Henry"... Theology as the "study of God" is a joke.
God is light and so he can be seen, God uses our hands and feet with which to move over the earth. God is spiritual energy too. God is involved in the human heart and decision making part of the will and mind. There are parts of the mind that are only used by spiritual thought processes. Meditation/prayer utilizes parts of the mind that are responsible for cellular healing and renewal of the body's senses. These are scientifically proven. These are the benefits of meditation and prayer. To slow the heart beat is to live longer. Theoretically the human heart is capable of beating only a finite number of times and then it quits. God spans the bridge between where science leaves off and faith and spirituality ends.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a
witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
John 1:17
The same came for a witness, to bear
witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:18
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear
witness of that Light.
Acts 4:33
And with great power gave the apostles
witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
peace with God
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