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Something's Wrong..<.<

 
 
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2004 03:03 pm



Hello all...

Like always...I have those annoying questions...wich never go away.. Rolling Eyes


So...let's go into it then...

I've always believed that got is unlike anything we can imagine..he never tires..He is All-Knowing, All-Seeing, All-Powerful, Perfect. Yet..the language of the Bible fails to picture even God himself in undignified terms...i dont want to say anything wrongÂ… I just want to point this out...maybe someone would have an explanation...I donno..anywayz...here they go..


God goes for a stroll:

Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden."


God can not find Adam (not all-knowing??):

Genesis 3:9-10 "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where are you? And he said, I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."(From God?)

God does not know if Adam ate from the tree or not (not all-knowing?):

Genesis 3:11 "And he (God) said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"


God becomes tired and needs to be refreshed??:

Exodus 31:17 "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

Notice that the verse does not claim that God Almighty "abstained from work," but rather that He "rested." This implies that it is possible for God Almighty to experience fatigue and that He is not All-Mighty and All-Powerful since He sometimes needs to be "refreshed"

I don't understand ??



God is not cognizant and/or is not eternally aware (not all knowing, all seeing, attentive and aware):

Psalms 44:23 "Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever."


When God finally becomes cognizant attentive and aware, He acts like a drunkard:

Psalms 78:65 "Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine."



God regrets his actions, God can not see the future, God can not change the past:

Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."


It is not possible to regret doing something unless the result of this action was something bad that had not been foreseen and can not be changed.

In Webster's New Dictionary (1990), the word "repent" is defined as follows: to regret, sorrow for, to wish to have been otherwise what one has done or left undone.

...im lost...-_-..Help anyone?

i know i always bring these stupid questions up.. but they just wont leave me alone...i mean its not only me..every Christian should wonder about such things....not me only -_-...

And also...where did the names of religions come from ?? (Example : Christianity , Islam , Judaism.)




Thx for taking the time.. Smile
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,064 • Replies: 59
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o0memyselfandi0o
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 05:37 am
I can use some replies you know.. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 05:49 am
Quote:
I can use some replies you know..



o0memyselfandi0o- Here is my reply. It may not be something that you want to hear, but I do believe that it is worthy of your consideration.

There is one major problem with your thesis. You are attempting to apply logic and reason, to a writing that is neither logical nor reasonable. So, before you try to pin down each passage in the Bible, why don't you consider looking at it in a more generic fashion?

What exactly IS the Bible? Apparently, as many people do, you accept the Bible as the word of God, and then attempt to square the inconsistencies with that concept. Have you ever considered that the Bible may be the work, of many primitive peoples, who were attempting to understand the world around them, but with far less knowledge than human beings have now?

Have you considered that the entire concept of God is a human creation? Have you even considered that we earthlings don't have the foggiest idea as to whether there even IS a God? (I tip my hat to Frank...........I think that you have converted me! :wink: )
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 06:53 am
Literal interpretation
God did not write the bible.

The earth is estimated to be approximately 4.54 billion years old. The existence of modern man on the earth can be traced back about 150,000 years. In developing religions, homo sapiens attributed natural phenomena (e.g., lightning, eclipses, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions), which was otherwise unexplainable to them, to the supernatural. Animals and human beings were ritually sacrificed to appease the Gods.

The bible was written by men born many centuries ago who were merely recording religious folklore or the beliefs of their times. Those original writings have been rewritten and modified countless times since then. You can't read the bible and give it a literal interpretation -- if you did, then you would have to take your unruly son to the city gates and have him stoned to death.
0 Replies
 
o0memyselfandi0o
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 07:44 am
What i think ...

All people feel the need to worship God and feel secure. But they differ on HIS Attributes and who HE is.
The need, the fear and hope for God is innate in human nature, they are born with it.
It is the defining and knowing who God is, that has been an issue of debate for many...


Well...

each one has his point of view,
but if there wasnt a god...or any of that...
alot of holes are kept blank...
alot of questions come up..
Example : Who created the universe??
Why was i created ?
Who created me?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 08:14 am
Quote:
All people feel the need to worship God and feel secure. But they differ on HIS Attributes and who HE is.


Really???? I could name a bunch of people, right on this forum, who would
take umbrage at your sentence.


Quote:
Example : Who created the universe??
Why was i created ?
Who created me?


I have no idea. I have reached a stage in life where I no longer bother myself with questions like that. Whenever someone postulates that it was a God that created him, the first question that comes into my mind is, "Well then, who created THAT God?"
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 08:28 am
The bible states that man was created in Gods image. The truth is that God was created in mans image.

As to the consequences of Adam eating the apple. Is that any different than the myth of Pandora's box. The Bible was merely a compilation of myths and superstitions.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 08:37 am
Hi, memyself.

Those are some very good questions and I am glad that you asked them.

I was just talking to my son last night, who is also 14, about this type of thing. He asked me if I ever questioned some of the things in the Bible, and said he was having trouble with the whole "all knowing, always has been and always will be concept." How could He always have been? Where did He come from?

I have questioned many times. Some of the concepts are hard to understand, and some of them require life experience and education in order to understand them. But, some just require faith. In my opinion, that is what God wants.

We talked for a very long time, so I can't get it all into this post. Have you talked to your parents about this? They may have some answers or suggestions for how you can find the answers.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 08:57 am
That's why they call it faith. You must decide if you believe. When you do your answers and conclusions to your own questions will be formed around your basic beliefs, and you will sleep well at night. And there's no need to take umbrage at anyones religious beliefs, or lack thereof, because it's spinning your wheels. Refer to my that's wjhy they call it faith statement.

Believe me, NO ONE whether they believe in God or vehemently do not, knows for sure.
0 Replies
 
Idaho
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 12:01 pm
Quote:
God goes for a stroll:

Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden."


Why not? Could an all-powerful God manifest a physical form in order to be more easily understood by humans? Sure.


Quote:
God can not find Adam (not all-knowing??):

Genesis 3:9-10 "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where are you? And he said, I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."(From God?)

God does not know if Adam ate from the tree or not (not all-knowing?):

Genesis 3:11 "And he (God) said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"


Okay, now I'm not all-knowing myself, but as a parent I have done this with my own children. I know where they are or what they are doing, but I still ask to give them the opportunity to take responsibility for their actions.

Quote:
God becomes tired and needs to be refreshed??:

Exodus 31:17 "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

Notice that the verse does not claim that God Almighty "abstained from work," but rather that He "rested." This implies that it is possible for God Almighty to experience fatigue and that He is not All-Mighty and All-Powerful since He sometimes needs to be "refreshed"


Some translations use "ceased from labor" rather than rested. This is generally explained along the lines of 'setting the example' for our needs rather than for God's need to rest. WE need to rest is the message here.


Quote:
God is not cognizant and/or is not eternally aware (not all knowing, all seeing, attentive and aware):

Psalms 44:23 "Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever."


This is generally viewed as the perception of the writer - basically God hadn't done precisely what the writer wanted. Think of it this way. If one of my kids asks for help pulling a wagon up a hill and I know they can figure out how to get it up themselves or find a way around the hill and gain some knowledge, experience and a sense of accomplishment, I may choose not to help them. Does that mean I am unaware of the situation, or that perhaps I may be more knowledgeable of the situation than the child is?


Quote:
When God finally becomes cognizant attentive and aware, He acts like a drunkard:

Psalms 78:65 "Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine."


Remember, this is poetry, and paints a picture with just a few words. The writer could have gone into a long, drawn-out explanation that may have been more clear, but this gives you a quick mental picture, perhaps at the cost of precision.



Quote:
God regrets his actions, God can not see the future, God can not change the past:

Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."


It is not possible to regret doing something unless the result of this action was something bad that had not been foreseen and can not be changed.

In Webster's New Dictionary (1990), the word "repent" is defined as follows: to regret, sorrow for, to wish to have been otherwise what one has done or left undone.


Another translation: "The Lord was sorry He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in his heart."

This is an expression of sorrow for what the people had done to themselves, as a parent might express sorrow over a rebellious child. It is entirely possible to know something will happen and still feel sorrow when it does. Remember, one of God's gifts to us was free will. We are not controlled - we are asked. The fact that God does not change the past does not mean He couldn't - it means He chooses to allow us free will even though we cause grief. Even if I could protect my children from all harm, I wouldn't. Should I prevent them from having the experience of climbing a mountain just because they might fall?

Quote:
And also...where did the names of religions come from ?? (Example : Christianity , Islam , Judaism.)


Christianity: The term Christian, or "Chist-one" was first used in Antioch because it was a way to describe the group that had nothing else in common. The had nothing else in common - not race, culture or language. Christianity was then used to describe the religion.

Judaism: Initially, the name referred to the tribe of Judah, a Judean being a person from that tribe and Judaism the religion of the tribe.

Islam: As I understand it, Islam was an arabic word, roughly meaning, "a readyness to take orders from God and follow them" and Muslim means "a person who is ready to take orders from God." When Mohammed became a monotheist, he used the word Islam to describe the religion. (I am by no means an expert on Islam so perhaps someone more knowledgable can provide better info.)

I hope this helps.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 12:18 pm
Idaho, thanks for taking the time to address the questions. That is exactly what I was going to post, but hadn't taken the time to respond yet.

I would only add that there is some change to the original scripture just by virtue of translation. Some of the original words had more specific or more general meanings than what they get translated into for our understanding. Therefor, I would encourage memyself to not get too caught up in literal reading. Try looking at several different versions of the same scripture to grasp the concept.
0 Replies
 
binnyboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 05:38 pm
hey idaho,

you seem to be in the business of explaining away the problems in the bible. So what do you make of the earth's six thousand years of existence?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 05:49 pm
binnyboy wrote

Quote:
you seem to be in the business of explaining away the problems in the bible. So what do you make of the earth's six thousand years of existence?


OOH OOH I know. A biblical day could have been millions of years. Good answer don't you think. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Idaho
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 06:22 pm
binnyboy wrote:

Quote:
hey idaho,

you seem to be in the business of explaining away the problems in the bible. So what do you make of the earth's six thousand years of existence?


I was answering the questions posed - I do not claim to be a Biblical scholar. Call is explaining away problems, or call it correcting misconceptions; depends on your POV, I guess.

The six days in Genesis is a point of great debate among biblical scholars, where people believe anything from the six days being literal 24-hour periods of time to God starting the evolutionary process. It could be that God just has a great sense of humor and placed lots of neat stuff here for us to find. Who knows. I believe the important point is the WHAT (God created the earth) and not the WHEN (six days, billion years . . .).
0 Replies
 
binnyboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 08:24 pm
interesting theory... Smile
0 Replies
 
Ray
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Dec, 2004 09:20 pm
Kant believed in God and he found that it is an intuition to know that God exists. Then again, he is a puritan, but God exist in one form or another in many parts of the world, so you can't really say for sure one way or the other, as Frank would have noted over and over again if he were to type out a reply. :wink:

Maybe, to answer this question we should first investigate whether ghosts exist. There are lots of sightings in the world, I say someone get an expedition team to investigate using all scientific methods and don't jump into any conclusions yet, one way or the other. Then maybe we'll get one step closer... Although I wouldn't try that myself. Laughing
0 Replies
 
o0memyselfandi0o
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Dec, 2004 09:56 am
mM...interesting replies...

so that explains WHY the bible was written many years after the time of Jesus in a language that was alien to Jesus; it was Latin Vulgate, a language that he never spoke.

mMmM....

How can the New Testament be authored by Paul
When (according to James, the brother of Jesus in the Bible,) had a polluted mind because he changed and contradicted most of the teachings of Jesus??
0 Replies
 
Etruscia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Dec, 2004 12:27 pm
Im going to attempt to explain the first part of the bible, now mind you this is just me spitting out what i learned from Ishmael, the Story of B and Beyond civilization all by Daniel Quinn.

I strongly suggest that everyone here read these books, they are some of the best i have ever read.

Actually here: http://www.ishmael.org/Education/Writings/southwestern.shtml

read this. Questions should be answered.
0 Replies
 
o0memyselfandi0o
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2005 06:34 am
Dear Phoenix32890...

You pointed out an important point when you asked WHO CREATED THAT GOD??...

well..

This question is inherently false and self contradictory. If we were to say for the sake of arguement- that some one created God then they would ask who created the creator of creator?
Then who created the creator of creator of the creator? And so on,...........
This is irrational and impossible.


...well...i think
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2005 07:01 am
Quote:
This question is inherently false and self contradictory. If we were to say for the sake of arguement- that some one created God then they would ask who created the creator of creator?
Then who created the creator of creator of the creator? And so on,...........
This is irrational and impossible.


o0memyselfandi0o - Please show me why you believe that the statement is false, contradictory, irrational, impossible and irresponsible.
0 Replies
 
 

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