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Mon 13 Dec, 2004 10:42 pm
It is the anticipation of the occurrence which creates fear, for if the occurrence would just take form, there would be no fear, just acceptance of its being. it is only the perception that a painful eventuality may take place and result in loss and suffering. if the entity feared would finally materialize, eventually occurÂ…
The simplicity of existence is determined by the level of ignorance towards the sensation felt when events effecting the being, and those effected by the being, with the actions perceived to be that which does not create a ripple on the mortal reality.
But the entity with the appearance of ignorance, may not be so simple in its existence. There may be a deep foundation built on fear , leading to the apparent lack of awareness to the surrounding environment. The being would be thrown down further than others where the untruth would no longer hold worth, and the screen would disintegrate, leaving an empty shell of isolation.
Yet is fear also not an indication the being exists? Is the use of anguish to depict a sense of authenticity an attempt to grasp life? Its meaning, its purpose defines the being, when the being should define life by its own purpose. If this purpose was considered by the being to be an existence destined for isolation, then would life not be defined by the being as gloomy, cold, deserted? Unless it was capable of deceiving itself ...
ok i wrote this during one of my more extreme bouts of insomnia, looking back on it i bearly understand what i was going on about, lol - i gues thats what no sleep does to you
Interesting.
Your first paragraph reminded me of this post:
"...I remember reading Alan Watts who related an account of the loss of self-identity by certain German civilians during WWII. It seems that the cities were bombed so frequently that the people became experts at judging how close the bombs were to them by the pitch and amplitude of the little propellors on the nose of the bombs put there just for that reason, to demoralize the citizens. So, of course, when a bomb was falling on their heads, they knew moments beforehand that there life was over. Many of these people lost their identity of self, that is, they entered transcendent and timeless and blissful states of mind. How do we know this? Because in many instances, the bombs that were ending their lives turned out to be duds."
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=961005#961005
Re: fear and existence
Danni-lee
I agree that existing supposes fear. Our experience is made of relations, interactions with things that "appear" to us. Things can be, from our perspective, useful, indifferent, menacing. We fear things not because of what they are, but because of the interaction we have to make with them. There is nothing to fear in fire. Only if we are confronted with the possibility of experiencing it.
Heidegger establishes a difference between fear and anguish. Anguish has to do with death, is the primal condition of our existence, although we never experience our own death. But fear has to do with existence itself.And, as you say, because we can antecipate the events - it doesn't matter if that antecipation is true or false - we can feel fear before the event occur. So we could say that fear exists in expectation.
If and when the event occurs, fear goes away.
danni-lee, 'bm' means 'bookmark', which means fresco will be back later to comment on this thread.
I might argue that existence, or 'life' only begins when one conquers fear, as val and Heidegger define it. More specifically, conquer that expectation of dire consequences, and one can actually start to live.
danni-lee wrote:ok i wrote this during one of my more extreme bouts of insomnia, looking back on it i bearly understand what i was going on about, lol - i gues thats what no sleep does to you
Sounds to me as though you might have done a joint before putting together this masterpiece. Combine an inability to sleep with a buzz...and one often comes up with "insights" of such quality.
danni-lee
Your thesis (but not your conclusion) is reminiscent of much that Krishnamurti has said about fear. A Google search on "Krishnamurti Fear" will yield much relevent information.
If you follow this up you might reconsider the linkage of "existence" to "fear". If existence is in "time" then "fear" as an aspect of predictive thought may be inevitable. But if "existence" transcends "time", such linkage might be avoided.
Not sure I understand all that, But I'll offer some comments anyway.
I have an interest in fear since I have problems experiencing it. Someone once rmarked, 'You don't scare easy'; I guess that's true enough, at least in situations which are potentially lethal. It has nothing to do with bravery, though, I just dissociate. The emotions are gone, as well as meaning. I know what's happening, and I can think quite clearly, but the magnitude of the event is lost on me, at least in time period directly following the event. I don't know if I have a disorder, but I am a 'high dissociator' (and how could it be a 'diisorder', anyway, if it has actually helped me survive?).
The first instance I remember was when I was around 7 or 8. I took a shortcut home from the bus stop through some backyards. It was winter and there was thick snow all over. I didn't know it, but I soon found out that the neighbors had had some sort of deep narrow pit dug in their backyard earlier in the season, perhaps for pipes or cable, I don't know. Well I fell through the snow and ice into a pit of frigid, muddy water up to my shoulders. I became very calm, and I remember thinking to myself - you are capable of lifting your own weight on the jungle gym, you can do it here, too. So instead of freaking out, that's what I did.
When I was 16, I was sitting outside my house reading the paper one summer afternoon. I noticed a car parked on the corner for some time. I went to get the mail and the car pulled along side me. The man in the passenger seat I knew, the driver was much a much younger man I hadn't met before. The passenger was my sister's pimp (yep, that's what I said). I told him my sister had moved out of state, which was true (in violation of her parole agreement). He said that I should get in the car if I knew what was good for me, you see what I got here for you? Well, I'm not sure what he had in his hands, I can't see it. I just kept thinking, ' I really can't get into the car. The chances of survival are slim when you get moved to a second location' - that's what I'd read, anyway. I told him I didn't want his drugs and I wasn't going anywhere with him. He told me he was gonna f* me up if I didn't get in. I turned my back and he yelled don't you turn your f'n back on me. The car turned around in the cul de sac and sped up the street . I was still at the top of the driveway when I heard a sound like a car backfiring. I felt something hot on the back of my neck near my shoulders. I went inside the house and my mom asked if she should call the police. I said no. A while later my dad found a bullet in the driveway (must have been out of range?) and asked me if I knew anything about it; I said no.
Frank Apisa wrote:danni-lee wrote:ok i wrote this during one of my more extreme bouts of insomnia, looking back on it i bearly understand what i was going on about, lol - i gues thats what no sleep does to you
Sounds to me as though you might have done a joint before putting together this masterpiece. Combine an inability to sleep with a buzz...and one often comes up with "insights" of such quality.
no, i don't do the drugs things, i wont even take medication for my insomnia- i don't want to become dependent on chemicals which doctors claim will"help" me sleep better.
Quote:primergray:
Not sure I understand all that, But I'll offer some comments anyway.
I have an interest in fear since I have problems experiencing it. Someone once rmarked, 'You don't scare easy'; I guess that's true enough, at least in situations which are potentially lethal. It has nothing to do with bravery, though, I just dissociate. The emotions are gone, as well as meaning. I know what's happening, and I can think quite clearly, but the magnitude of the event is lost on me, at least in time period directly following the event. I don't know if I have a disorder, but I am a 'high dissociator' (and how could it be a 'diisorder', anyway, if it has actually helped me survive?).
The first instance I remember was when I was around 7 or 8. I took a shortcut home from the bus stop through some backyards. It was winter and there was thick snow all over. I didn't know it, but I soon found out that the neighbors had had some sort of deep narrow pit dug in their backyard earlier in the season, perhaps for pipes or cable, I don't know. Well I fell through the snow and ice into a pit of frigid, muddy water up to my shoulders. I became very calm, and I remember thinking to myself - you are capable of lifting your own weight on the jungle gym, you can do it here, too. So instead of freaking out, that's what I did.
When I was 16, I was sitting outside my house reading the paper one summer afternoon. I noticed a car parked on the corner for some time. I went to get the mail and the car pulled along side me. The man in the passenger seat I knew, the driver was much a much younger man I hadn't met before. The passenger was my sister's pimp (yep, that's what I said). I told him my sister had moved out of state, which was true (in violation of her parole agreement). He said that I should get in the car if I knew what was good for me, you see what I got here for you? Well, I'm not sure what he had in his hands, I can't see it. I just kept thinking, ' I really can't get into the car. The chances of survival are slim when you get moved to a second location' - that's what I'd read, anyway. I told him I didn't want his drugs and I wasn't going anywhere with him. He told me he was gonna f* me up if I didn't get in. I turned my back and he yelled don't you turn your f'n back on me. The car turned around in the cul de sac and sped up the street . I was still at the top of the driveway when I heard a sound like a car backfiring. I felt something hot on the back of my neck near my shoulders. I went inside the house and my mom asked if she should call the police. I said no. A while later my dad found a bullet in the driveway (must have been out of range?) and asked me if I knew anything about it; I said no.
I would love to experience such a calming effect when in life threatening situations, you are very lucky. I normally feeze up, then have little memory of the event afterwards. Of course I haven't been in any majorly life threatening situations like you. When I was around five, my younger sister and I were singing in the car. It was making my dad angry, so naturally we kept going. He hit the brakes in the middle of the road , and I saw a car speeding over the hill in our lane pretty much the rest is a blur. Apparently dad swung the car around far enough so the impact was centred on the front corner of the our car. We all escaped with minor injuries to both us and the car. The car that crashed into us was totaled. Apparently my sister was screaming and i was about as stiff as a rod. another time I was biking around town when I was about 13, and I came to a set of train tracks and didn't see the train coming until the last minute, and instead of stopping I froze and kept going, obviously I got across in time, I don't remember how close it was, my memorys good like that.
I don't deal with fear too well, I am seriously considering hypnosis to get rid of it, would that work?
I have never read material on what I wrote, it just sort of came out.
Lucky? I suppose in those instances, yes. But my reaction after the fact in the second example, doesn't it strike you as a bit, well, loopy? And the dissociative states are not just triggered by extreme danger, other classes of situations tend to precipitate them as well. Sometimes they just come on out of the blue; I just go off to laa-laa land for seemingly no reason at all.
~~~
Hypnosis might work, if you are susceptible.
And if you were the type of person to freeze up in those situations you'd be dead, I would trade you anyday. im just lucky I havent been in a life threatening situation, which would lead to death if I froze and I hope I never will.
~~~
according to questionaries i've done I am quite susceptible, probably because i'm so tired all the time
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