IRAQ UPDATE
Election results were announced today for Iraq's national assembly. The assembly will be creating a new democratic constitution for Iraq. The religious Shiite parties won more votes than the other party coalitions with 48% of the total. The mostly secular Kurdish parties came in second with 26%. The remaining 26% went to other parties.
The Iraq National Assembly has 275 seats. 132 of those seats will go to the Shiite coalition. The new constitution would require the approval of two-thirds of the national assembly. This means Shiites would need to form alliances in the assembly in order to advance their agenda.
Whether Iraq's new democracy will have separation of church and state (mosque and state) will be decided in coming months. (Although Shiites did not get a majority, they will still have the largest share of seats in the national assembly. This will give them a lot of influence in the writing of Iraq's new constitution.)
It is a great opportunity to be able to watch and follow such an event. I hope it turns out well.
hyper,
I thought maybe we could put Iraq into an A2K petri dish and study what happens when religion and secular politics interact in the formation of a new democracy.
wandeljw wrote:Election results were announced today for Iraq's national assembly. The assembly will be creating a new democratic constitution for Iraq. The religious Shiite parties won more votes than the other party coalitions with 48% of the total. The mostly secular Kurdish parties came in second with 26%. The remaining 26% went to other parties.
The Sunni's are gonna be pissed. The only question is who will they try to blow up, the people who won, or the people who told them to boycott the vote.
It is interesting that not all Iraqi Shiites even want their religion to be part of the new democratic constitution.
One Shiite religious scholar believes religion is not compatible with true democracy. He has been quoted as saying: "You cannot implement real democracy without secularism. Democracy is not just elections. It is a system for the whole nation. Democracy has so many elements: free economy, culture, human rights, separation of powers. And all people should be equal before the law. This is secularism."
It was amazing for me to see such insight into democracy coming from an Islamic religious scholar!
I think some Iraqis are fundamentalist fanatics but I think these are in a distinct minority. After reading about the Iraqis, hearing testimony from Iraqi citizens, and hearing testimony from American troops who are or have been over there, I believe the vast majority of Iraqi people to be intelligent, thoughtful, freedom loving, and ready to seize the chance to direct their own destiny. Toward that end I think they will go the route of Turkey--Islam will be important to Iraq, but it will not control the government.
wandeljw wrote:hyper,
I thought maybe we could put Iraq into an A2K petri dish and study what happens when religion and secular politics interact in the formation of a new democracy.
great idea! Should we continue that on this post, or should I start a new one?
hyper426 wrote:Should we continue that on this post, or should I start a new one?
The role of religion in Iraq's new democracy is consistent with your original topic. We could continue on this thread.
Hey, thanks for inviting Frank back to this site. I really miss him and Fox. Lately it has just been us.
Any ideas to boost attendance?
hyper,
getting frank and/or foxfyre back would definitely get things going!
however, do you think my iraq approach may be boring? (i feel like a boy scout trying to make a fire using damp sticks.)
Quote:THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
BAGHDAD - The shy family doctor who became the leading candidate for prime minister Tuesday says ending the nation's rampant violence is his top priority and that U.S. troops would remain as long as they are needed to achieve that goal.
In an exclusive Associated Press interview, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, a 58-year-old moderate Shiite Muslim politician who fled a brutal crackdown by Saddam Hussein in 1980, also talked about drafting a constitution that will draw not only on Islam for inspiration.
"Islam should be the official religion of the country, and one of the main sources for legislation, along with other sources that do not harm Muslim sensibilities," said al-Jaafari, who currently serves as Iraq's interim vice president and was living in London until Saddam's regime was overthrown.
He said he supports women's rights, including the right to be the president or prime minister, as well as self-determination and individual freedoms for all Iraqis.
The interview took place in the office of al-Jaafari's home in the U.S.-guarded Green Zone in central Baghdad. Islamic art, much of it Quranic verses with intricate Arabic calligraphy in gold that are common in Iraq, adorned the walls. An Iraqi flag was hanging from a pole set on a floor stand in the background. A computer was on his desk.
Al-Jaafari, the leader of the Dawa Party, became the top contender for Iraq's top government post after his main rival, Adel Abdul Mahdi, dropped out. Ahmad Chalabi, a former Pentagon favorite, was still in the running for prime minister, but was considered by many to be a long shot.
Al-Jaafari said that if he is confirmed as prime minister, he would first try to stymie the violence that has crippled the country's recovery from decades of war and hardship.
"The security situation is at the top, as it is a pressing element," al-Jaafari said. As a result, he said he would not push for the United States and its allies to withdraw their troops from Iraq any time soon.
"Blood is being spilled, and the land is under attack," he said. "How about if we decided to get these troops out of Iraq?" he said, suggesting that the situation would be much worse than it is now.
Source
We can cross our fingers and hope for the best, but the talk of an official religion and using Islam as a basis for legislation doesn't sound positive to me. Wherever
Sharia Law has been adopted, human rights, women's rights, and freedom of religion have suffered.
mesquite,
Thanks for the article. You bring up an important concern that has been expressed by many Iraqi citizens. If Islamic law (Sharia) became a significant part of the new constitution, it would have an adverse effect on women's rights. Some Iraqis fear that even non-Muslim women would be required to wear a veil in public.
Once again, couldn't they adopt Islam as the official religion, not law? Is that possible? Or, could a "bill or rights" be established to protect what are now considered to be basic human rights?
Hyper, this is the problem.
Quote:Iraqi Shia leaders demand sharia law
Senior leaders in Iraq's Shia Muslim community are demanding the country base its laws and new constitution on the principles of Islam.
The main Shia coalition is expected to be the biggest winner out of last month's national election.
A representative of one of Iraq's most powerful Shia leaders, Grand Ayatollah Mohammad al-Fayad, has issued a statement demanding that the Koran be the reference point for all government legislation.
Source
For those not familiar with sharia law, it prescribes punishments as well as defining standards and crimes. This is where such punishments as amputations for theft and stoning for adultery come from.
Wow....God, I hope that they don't do this! I cannot believe that a democracy can form from this. The only was a middle-eastern country, or any country, can benefit from a democracy is through separation of chuch and state.
mesquite,
You probably know more about Sharia (Islamic law) than I do. The degree to which Sharia is incorporated into the new Iraqi constitution will make a difference. Is it possible to write a constitution based on Sharia without violating the principles of democracy? Can the end-product even be considered a democratic constitution?
hyper426 wrote:I cannot believe that a democracy can form from this. The only was a middle-eastern country, or any country, can benefit from a democracy is through separation of chuch and state.
I wonder how accurate this statement is. Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in church and state (as you can probably tell from previous posts), but I wonder if it really is necessary to separate them for a "democracy" to work.
