Cosmic Evolution and the SLT (Second Law of Thermo)

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The general assumption:

rosborne979 wrote:

Using the Big Bang model (and speaking loosely in laymans terms), the Universe started as a single point, and expaned (or inflated) to our current Universe. As the Universe cooled, sub-atomic particles condensed out of the quark fog, and light elements condensed out of the sub-atomic spray.

Microwave background radiation from COBE and MAP indicate a slight non-unifority within the original energy spread.

That non-uniformity resulted in threads of higher gravitational density filled with super galactic structures and collections of galaxies.

And within galaxies, stars formed, and heavy elements, and planets, and in at least one case, DNA and Life.

The Question:

rosborne979 wrote:

We certainly see complexity arising in the Universe, at least in specific locations in space, but is the overall complexity of the Universe increasing, or is it staying balanced?

If it is balanced, what is it balanced by?

If the Universe is a closed system (which I assume it is), then given the SLT, the increase in complexity we see must be an energy neutral result of expansion/cooling. It's as though information and complexity were crystalizing out of an increasingly saturated solution (energy saturated).

Can we deduce anything about the nature of the Universe by observing that it generates localized complexity as a result of natural expansion and cooling?

Many of our discussions on Biological Evolution have implications for Cosmic Evolution and the nature of the Universe, even thought the basic theory of Biological Evolution can stand on its own without those implications. In this discussion, I wanted to focus on those more "unanswerable" questions of cosmic "implication".

Thanks Smile

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Looks like you're looking for our personal best guestimates/opinions in an area we have only begun to understand (if at all). Just bookmarking for now.

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An intro for us novice on this subject. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/seclaw.html

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all complexity is, by nature, 'local', as otherwise there would be only a vast uniformity of matter extending to infinity (the infinity of this specific universe, not the 'ultiverse', here, i know, we disagree).

the complexity has to be initiated by some micro anomaly which disturbs the uniformity which is the 'default' state.

investigation of what these anomalies are, and how they occur would be a fascinating exploration.

[suggestions?]

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I'm listening...

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BoGoWo wrote:

all complexity is, by nature, 'local', as otherwise there would be only a vast uniformity of matter extending to infinity

Do we know this to be true?

How do we know that all complexity is "local"? What if the overall complexity of the Universe is increasing? Would that be in conflict with SLT?

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I can't really see any conflict with SLT.

The universe is changing as a function of time. Those changes, as far as we can tell, all conform to SLT....that's why we still call it a law.

BoGoWo sums it up here;

Quote:

the complexity has to be initiated by some micro anomaly which disturbs the uniformity which is the 'default' state.

Once you get down to quantum level, anomalies happen ALL the time.

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Adrian wrote:

I can't really see any conflict with SLT.

The universe is changing as a function of time. Those changes, as far as we can tell, all conform to SLT....that's why we still call it a law.

But in a closed system (and I'm going to assume the Universe is closed for the moment), there shouldn't be any increase in complexity, right? And yet, there "is" a demonstratable increase in complexity, at least locally.

If the whole thing starts off in equillibrium, and then local areas of complexity arise, doesn't that imply that there are corresponding areas of decreased complexity somewhere balancing things for the whole?

Or is it that the total energy component of the Universe being converted from raw energy (in whatever form) into complexity (a state change)?

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Just bumping this.

I haven't been able to word what I want to say yet....

It has to do with the equillibrium idea.

The closed universe part I will leave alone because it's the basic assumption of the thread.

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Cosmic Evolution and the SLT (Second Law of Thermo)

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