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Reading is not enough

 
 
jufa
 
Reply Thu 13 Jul, 2017 12:57 pm
Man cannot become aligned to the invisible revelation of Scripture just by reading and quoting Them.
The Scripture are the Living Words
emanating from Consciousness
with the inertia to convey that which is flowing freely in the Creator RIGHT NOW,
-“Now faith is the substance, the evidence” -
so Christ’s Spirit can unite with all who touch Him and are touched by Him,
not in dead words quoted from Scripture but
in Spirit and in truth. - jufa
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,216 • Replies: 13
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alex2165
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 08:23 pm
@jufa,
And I can add to your post that Bible is not a Novel or some kind of literature piece to read, but it must be study thoroughly, methodically, and systematically, and only then it can be understood, fully appreciated, and will change life.

I believe that the knowledge comes from the study of the Bible, but the understanding of it comes only from GOD.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:31 pm
@alex2165,
Quote:
I believe that the knowledge comes from the study of the Bible, but the understanding of it comes only from GOD.
Are you saying that you should not use your God given ability to think and comprehend?

Should not the Bible be a direct reflection of his creation? So the good in the Bible should be a reflection of the good in the world? And therefore the study of the bible could be done in conjunction with the study of the good in this world?
alex2165
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2018 11:03 pm
@vikorr,
To Vikkor.

You wrote, “Are you saying that you should not use your God given ability to think and comprehend?”


May I ask you a question, “Does GOD gave you ability to understand absolutely everything in the Bible and you have no questions at all concerning the Holy Book?

Did it never happen to you that after reading and studying and spent some time researching suddenly you have understanding of the subject?

Are you relying on your own understanding? Then please read the passage below and see for yourself how far your own understanding can go?

Exodus 36.1-2
1.Bezalel and Oholiab and every skillful one to whom the Lord has given skill and understanding to know to how to do any work in the construction of the Sanctuary, shall work in accordance with all that the Lord has commanded.

1Chronicles 22.12
12.Only may the Lord grant you discretion and understanding, so that when He gives you charge over Israel you may keep the Law of the Lord your GOD.

Job 32.8-9
Elihu speaks to Job and his friends.
8.But truly it is the spirit in a mortal, the Breath of the Almighty that makes for understanding.
9.It is not the old that are wise, nor the aged that understand what is right.

Psalm 119.32.34.73.99-100.125.130.144.169
32.I run the way of Your Commandments, You enlarge my understanding.
34.Give me understanding that I may keep Your Law and observe it with my whole heart.
73.You hands have made and fashioned me, give me understanding that I may learn Your Commandments.
99.I have more understanding than all my teachers, Your Decrees are my meditation.
100.I understand more than the aged, I keep Your Precepts.
125.I am Your servant, give me understanding so that I may know Your Decrees.
130.The unfolding of Your Words gives light, it imparts understanding to the simple.
144.Your Decrees are righteous forever, give me understanding that I may live.
169.Let my cry come before You O Lord, give understanding according to Your Word.

Proverbs 20.24
24.All our steps are ordered by the Lord, how then can we understand our own ways?

Isaiah 11.2
2.The Spirit of the Lord shall rest on Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

Jeremiah 3.15
15."I will give you shepherds after My own Heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding."

2Timothy 2.7
7.Think over what I say, the Lord will give you understanding in all things.

1John 5.20
20.And we know that the Son of GOD has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him Who is true, and we are in Him Who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true GOD and eternal Life.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:33 am
@alex2165,
Quote:
May I ask you a question, “Does GOD gave you ability to understand absolutely everything in the Bible and you have no questions at all concerning the Holy Book?
- the Bible was written by men, was it not? Even if they were moved by the Holy Spirit to do such writing
- My mentions of the good in this world, being created by God, being a reflection of God, and therefore capable of being studied alongside the Bible, was not an absolute...why then does your question seek to make it an absolute?

All your quotes regarding God giving understanding...does a baby, born away from Christianity (and there have been many), ignorant of God - does it not have the ability to learn, comprehend, and understand things? If so, how, when your quotes appear to say otherwise (that only God can grant such)? Are the passages wrong (for they appear absolute), or are you interpreting them away from their initially intended application. If you were to match the two, the obvious answer is that understanding is an ability given to people by God at birth, and we should use it wisely.

I am by the way, not Christian, even if I have an interest in spiritual matters.
alex2165
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2018 07:56 pm
@vikorr,
To Vikkor.

You are trying to maneuver yourself between two extremes and get out yourself out the tight place. The passages I presented show the core of the meaning of how and from Whom the true understanding comes, and as you mentioned “(for they appear absolute),” they are absolute.

So if they are absolute, what we are then arguing about? Is anything impossible for the Lord? Is the Lord incapable make someone fully understand His Word?

You wrote: “I am by the way, not Christian” Well, if you are not Christian, then you are not spiritual. You may be spiritual in other things and in other gods, but not in the spirituality of the Bible.

So our disscussion is like water that are poored from one bucket to another and vise versa without any particular reason, it means that we are completely on the different levels and would never come to a reasonable agreement.

1Corinthians 2.14
14.Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of GOD’S Spirit, they are foolishness to them and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2018 09:51 pm
@alex2165,
What tight place am I trying to get myself out of? I thought we were just having a conversation on the word understanding, what it entails, and how it exists.

Are you not able to answer the question I posed, regarding the child who grew never hearing of God?

Perhaps you wish to define, or redefine what understanding you are talking about? Perhaps you believe the bible means only spiritual understanding?

Quote:
You wrote: “I am by the way, not Christian” Well, if you are not Christian, then you are not spiritual. You may be spiritual in other things and in other gods, but not in the spirituality of the Bible.
Why is this even a debate to you? That is exactly what I said, rephrased.
alex2165
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2018 08:06 pm
@vikorr,
To Vikoor.

You wrote: “Perhaps you believe the bible means only spiritual understanding?” Exactly.

You wrote: “Are you not able to answer the question I posed, regarding the child who grew never hearing of God?”

I can answer this question. It really does not matter upbringing of the child. Children and adults find GOD in many different ways and each of those ways is different just like people are different.

I know some religious families with completely ungodly children, and I know ungodly families with godly children. It is all depends on the soul of each and every individual and there is no any special law or pattern exists of how children and adult turn themselves to GOD or against Him, and it is impossible to predict.

Also some people who were considered very godly and pious at one point in time turned away from GOD, and those who never acknowledged GOD, in some point in their lives turned to Him with open heart.

We do not know the hearts of men, but only GOD knows every heart, and only He knows who will be loyal to Him and who will betray Him.

But I know for sure, that if a person seriously wants to know the Lord and to discover Him, the only, and only way to do it is to study Bible and pray to GOD for understanding, and I am sure that such person will receive it.

Not necessarily that it will be a 100% understanding of everything, but it will be enough to understand the essence of the Bible and GOD, which will be resulted in repentance, forgiveness of sins from High, and salvation of the soul.

2Chronicles 15.2
2. The Lord is with you when you are with Him. And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him, but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you.

Isaiah 55.6
6.Seek the Lord while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near,

Matthew 7.7-8
7."Ask and it will be given to you, search and you will find, knock and the door will be opened for you.
8.Everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened

Luke 11.9-13
9."And I say to you, ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you.
10.Everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it shall be opened.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:50 am
@alex2165,
Quote:
You wrote: “Perhaps you believe the bible means only spiritual understanding?” Exactly.
Thank you for the clarification. Leaving the word 'spiritual' out, before the word 'understanding, can cause all sorts of dramas / misunderstandings.

Quote:
I can answer this question. It really does not matter upbringing of the child. Children and adults find GOD in many different ways and each of those ways is different just like people are different.
You imply they can know of God without knowing the Bible?

Quote:
and only way to do it is to study Bible and pray to GOD for understanding
Does this not contradict the above?
alex2165
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2018 07:48 pm
@vikorr,
To Vikkor.

There are no contradictions in my post. Children and adults, who are study Bible and receive understanding from Above, are already Christians, and they reaching to the Lord in many different ways.

Some preach, some went on the mission, some serve in the church, some preach to the people on the streets, some involved in social networks, some do work of faith helping poor and needy, and so on.

According to how much understanding GOD gave to each and every individual, every one of them do their work for the Christ in his and her own ways, and reaching to the Kingdom of GOD.

2Peter 3.15
15. “…Paul, according to the wisdom given him wrote to you…”

Words, “according to the wisdom given him, “mean“ according to the understanding given him.”

And so, according to what GOD gave to each and everyone of us, we and serve Him in our own ways, every one according to his/her knowledge, understanding, faith, and work.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2018 10:30 pm
@alex2165,
vikorr wrote:
does a baby, born away from Christianity (and there have been many), ignorant of God - does it not have the ability to learn, comprehend, and understand things? If so, how, when your quotes appear to say otherwise (that only God can grant such)?
alex2165 wrote:
I can answer this question. It really does not matter upbringing of the child. Children and adults find GOD in many different ways and each of those ways is different just like people are different.
vikorr wrote:
You imply they can know of God without knowing the Bible?
alex2165 wrote:
and only way to do it is to study Bible and pray to GOD for understanding
vikorr wrote:
Does this not contradict the above?
2165 wrote:
There are no contradictions in my post. Children and adults, who are study Bible and receive understanding from Above, are already Christians, and they reaching to the Lord in many different ways.


Unfortunately, my question related to children who never heard of god, and never had the opportunity to read the bible - whether or not they can understand.

So in your last post, you've responded, but not to the gist of my question - the apparent contradiction (on the surface) of what you are saying. Perhaps at a deeper level there isn't a contradiction? Or perhaps there's an interpretation issue?

alex2165
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2018 07:07 pm
@vikorr,
To Vikkor.

vikorr wrote:
“does a baby, born away from Christianity (and there have been many), ignorant of God - does it not have the ability to learn, comprehend, and understand things? If so, how, when your quotes appear to say otherwise (that only God can grant such)?”

I think with this question you confused yourself and others.

Babys do not learn anything until they grew up to a certain level, and then they mature enough they understand only simple things first, and by progressing in age, later, able to understand certain general issues of life.

Concerning Bible, babys or not, it requires not only human understanding, because it goes only so far and have limits, but need the understanding from GOD in order to comprehent and more fully and deeply understand the Holy Scripture.

Jesus was a small Boy when he tought rabbis the Word of GOD in the synagogue.

Jeremiah also was a boy (in some Bibles he call himself: “youth”) but GOD appointed him as a prophet over Israel and over the nations of the world, and gave him understanding of His Word.

So in addition to human understanding, understanding from GOD is essential in order to deeper and better understand His Word.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2018 07:47 pm
@alex2165,
Much better - so children can achieve understanding, but not spiritual understanding of God without the bible?

And it requires God to understand the Bible deeply? This is presumably why there are/were priests, pastors and rabbi's, and prophets.

Why then did Jesus teach the masses with parables? Why do the above priests, pastors, and rabbi's tell stories in so many of their sermons? Why are these stories of events in the world? The telling of stories, in the bible included, are a way to understanding, are they not? So such stories indicate that there is some merit in my original thought that the bible can be studied in conjunction with observation of his creation -the world - from which the priests / rabbis / parables / stories come, does it not?

Do the telling of stories help people to a deeper meaning of life, as well as a deeper meaning of God?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2018 09:58 pm
@vikorr,
Not to mention that before the bible, there was...? What was the way to spiritual understanding of God?

And why did that spiritual understanding change between the Old & New Testaments? From the Old Testament, where he was a God to be feared, who physically punished people on this earth...changing to the God of love and compassion, who healed, and joined people together, without violence...of the New Testament? I never did comprehend that, for he says in Malachi "I am the Lord your God. I change not" - which makes sense if viewed in isolation from the Old & New testaments, but not when viewed together.
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