1
   

A wish and a prayer for the Ukrainian democrats, please

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 09:14 am
Quote:
BBC: Crowds blockade Kiev government

Thousands of demonstrators have laid siege to government buildings in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, in protest at the presidential election results.
Support for opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko appears to be growing as police cadets and TV stations openly show their allegiance, say observers. ...




While they appear mostly to be talkin' about talkin', at least they're talkin'. That beats hell outta shootin'.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 09:29 am
Russia slams Ukraine interference
From correspondents in Moscow
November 26, 2004/SMH

RUSSIAN Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has slammed Western intervention in Ukraine, as the European Union stepped up efforts to mediate a standoff over a presidential vote in the former Soviet republic.

"We are alarmed by attempts by certain governments to steer the situation in Ukraine away from a legal path," Mr Lavrov said.

"Especially when certain European capitals are declaring that they do not recognize the elections and that Ukraine has to be with the West," he said.

"It is the Ukrainian people and not someone in their place who must decide with whom Ukraine will be," he said.

"We are not indifferent to what happens in Ukraine."

"Geographically Ukraine is near the West but also near Russia," he said. "We hope that the world will respect the choice of the Ukrainian people, respect its right to decide on its own its internal affairs."

"These declarations ... make one think that someone would very much like to draw up new partition lines in Europe," he said.

Mr Lavrov spoke as Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana flew into Kiev for mediation talks over the crisis. Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus was expected later in the day.

Like Ukraine, the international community has split into two camps over Sunday's presidential vote, which handed victory to the pro-Russia Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich.

While the EU and the US have backed opposition claims that the election was rigged in favour of the ruling party candidate, Russia, China, Belarus and two former Soviet republics in Central Asia said the vote was fair.

`
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 11:08 am
Good, informative articles, msolga, thanks. Just a nitpicky note: links to sources are useful to some folks.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 11:33 am
For the first time
Quote:
Ukraine rivals meet in presence of EU, Russia mediators


which could give some more hope:


Quote:
11-26-2004

KIEV (AFP) - Ukraine's two presidential rivals were due to meet for the first time in the presence of top European and Russian mediators in a bid to resolve a five-day political crisis that has paralyzed the government.

Tens of thousands of supporters of the pro-West opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko blockaded key government buildings in the capital Kiev demanding that their hero be recognized the winner of a weekend election that official ballot counts handed to pro-Moscow Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich.

But there were growing signs that the seat of power was relenting -- even as Russia again vented its fury at what it said was unlawful Western pressure being applied against its most important eastern European ally.

Ukraine's national television stations that had throughout the week provided mostly positive coverage of Prime Minister Yanukovich and avoided broadcasting news of the mass demonstrations gripping the country began to feature the opposition in its news.

The supreme court was expected to hear opposition claims Monday that the state had fixed last weekend's vote in favor of their man. Analysts said that its justices have shown independence in the past and could possibly back Yushchenko's position.

The police have so far failed to intervene against the unprecedented blockade of both the presidential administration and the cabinet buildings -- which prevented Yanukovich from getting into his offices on Friday.

"This has paralyzed the government," the prime minister's press secretary fumed.

A flurry of closed-door negotiations between Ukraine's top players and European dignitaries highlighted the standoff's fifth day.

Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma first met visiting Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski -- who has expressed growing concerns about the crisis in his country's eastern neighbor -- before European Union's foreign policy chief Javier Solana joined the talks.

Kuchma's office then crucially announced the president would also meet with Yushchenko before inviting Solana, Kwasniewski and Lithuania's President Valdas Adamkus for round-table crisis talks.

The president's office said Yanukovich and Russian parliament speaker Boris Gryzlov -- the first Moscow representative to visit Kiev during the conflict -- would also eventually enter the talks.

A polish embassy official said the first round of the critical negotiations would begin Friday at 1600 GMT.

There was no initial mention of Yanukovich attending any of the meetings but he told his supporters on Friday that he would not allow the opposition to "overthrow the constitution" through their protest will calling for his own backers to keep calm.

"The life of every individual is dear to me and I do not need any power if this provokes bloodshed," he was quoted as telling a Kiev rally by Interfax.

But Moscow greeted Europe's direct intervention in the crisis with open fury and dismay.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters in Moscow that Europe was trying to pull its ally into the Western camp by dangerously and illegally fomenting opposition protests.

"We are alarmed by attempts by certain governments to steer the situation in Ukraine away from a legal path," Lavrov said.

"Especially when certain European capitals are declaring that they do not recognize the elections and that Ukraine has to be with the West," he added.

The comments were some of the harshest from Russia because they directly confirmed that Moscow was interested in seeing its own allies rule the strategic former Soviet republic.

The Slavic nation of 48 million has served as a buffer between Russia and the expanding European Union -- which Moscow is viewing with growing mistrust -- and remains its key trading partner, particularly in the military sphere.

Meanwhile Yushchenko supporters who throughout the week kept up a non-stop vigil on key Kiev squares moved directly against the government's seat of power en masse for the first time.

Tens of thousands of chanting, cheering and singing protesters blocked the presidency and the government building in a human chain of opposition orange that kept all from entering or leaving the buildings.

Some officials tried to sneak in through back doors and secret entrances only to be turned away by the crowds.

The police presence was light and some quietly said they were following orders but were with the people in their hearts.

"Of course I am with them, the police are with the people," said Vadim, a policeman in his late 20s, who was standing with the protesters near the building.

His comments came as some 25,000 Yanukovich supporters gathered at a railway station before their planned march in the direction of their opposition rivals who have made the capital's central Independence Square their home.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:34 pm
Some webcams in the Ukraine/Kiev:

Kyiv, Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square). Live

37 (!) webcams

Kiev, Maidan Nezalezhnosti, Inter Webcam

Kharkov, crossroad of Lenina and 23rd August streets
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:57 pm
Somehow, something like this was to expect:

Quote:
Eastern Ukraine Threatens with Autonomy

Politics: 26 November 2004, Friday.

The Russian-speaking Eastern regions of Ukraine, which account for the country's economic heart and mainly back Yanukovich, has threatened to hold a referendum on autonomy if Yushchenko succeeded in overturning Yanukovich's election.

The big industrial centers of Donetsk and Lugane are seen to have provided the controversial advance of 3% of votes that made the Central Elections Committee pronounce Yanukovich winner in Sunday's runoff for the presidency.

Ukraine's parliament (the Rada) decided to hold an emergency debate on the crisis on Saturday, a spokesman for the chamber's speaker said. All the chamber's factions backed the plan except Yanukovich's Party of the Regions.

The opposition campaign of civil disobedience is part of a strategy by Yushchenko and his allies that involves a national strike, including a blockade of main highways.

source: Sofia News Agency
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 03:59 pm
Some good news now:

Quote:
Working group set up to tackle Ukraine crisis



The outgoing president of Ukraine and the two men who want to take his place sat down Friday to discuss the growing political crisis sparked by Sunday's disputed presidential election.

Emerging from the meeting, President Leonid Kuchma said a "multilateral working group" will tackle the job of settling the dispute over who will replace him: pro-Western candidate Viktor Yushchenko or Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych.

Holding another election is one possibility on the table, a source close to the talks told the Associated Press.

The three-hour meeting took place as tens of thousands of Ukrainians continued to demonstrate in favour of Yushchenko in the streets of the capital Kiev.

- INDEPTH: Ukraine's presidential contenders

The elections commission in the country of 48 million people has declared Yanukovych the winner of the election, despite widespread evidence of voter intimidation and rigged ballot counting.

Before the meeting, Kuchma gave a televised address in which he called for Yushchenko's supporters to stop their protest and return to their jobs and homes.

"Any revolution must end in peace," said Kuchma, who has been backing Yanukovych. "The sooner this so-called revolution ends, the better it will be for the Ukrainian people."

Interviewed at his ranch in Texas Friday as the meeting began, U.S. President George W. Bush spoke out for the first time on the political crisis.

"The international community is watching very carefully," he said. "People are paying very close attention to this and, hopefully, it will be resolved in a way that brings credit and confidence to the Ukrainian government."

A number of European envoys also attended Friday's meeting, including European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana and the presidents of Poland and Lithuania, said Solana's spokesperson, Christina Gallach.

On Thursday, a Ukrainian Supreme Court order put the presidential inauguration of Yanukovych on hold until it hears a complaint from his rival that the election was rigged.

That news led to loud cheers by an estimated 200,000 demonstrators in Kiev's Independence Square when they were told of it by defeated opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko.

- FROM NOV. 25, 2004: Demonstrations grow in Ukraine

Yushchenko has vowed to remain with his supporters until the results are overturned.

Linking arms and standing in five-deep rows, the demonstrators on Friday circled the presidential administration building where Yanukovych works, and refused to let his staff inside.

Busloads of police remain on standby nearby, but no violence has been reported.

- Polish, Lithuanian leaders in Kiev -

Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski arrived on Friday to help smooth the way for a peaceful end to the confrontation, at Kuchma's request.

Kwasniewski's proposed three-point plan includes calling on both sides to renounce violence, call for a vote re-count and begin round-table discussions.

Some of Yushchenko's allies have called for more radical action, including blocking the building entrances to keep the civil servants out.

Fiery member of parliament Yuliya Tymoshenko has called for a general strike, blocking all the country's central highways and stopping rail and airport traffic.

It's unclear whether the general strike is having any effect.
Source
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 01:53 am
I found this BBC forum an absorbing read, with posts from all over the world. Especially interesting were those from western & eastern Ukraine.

Other good links on this page, too, including photographs from the Ukrainian demonstrations.

How can the Ukraine crisis be solved?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4033549.stm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 02:07 am
Ukraine's supreme court is set today (Monday) to hear an opposition appeal that the presidential election has been rigged in favour of pro-Moscow Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich.
0 Replies
 
J-B
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 06:56 am
Is Ukraine able to be divided into two parts? Confused
I supposed so....
See two completely seperated (also geographic dichotomy makes it easier to be divided)groups have two completely different ways for developement and making benefits.
Any group's representive picks the presidency, the other group will absolutely protest (like the supporters of Yuchenko these days.)

My English if not so good and i am not sure i can show my sentiment clearly.
Anyway i am waiting for your opinions.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 01:36 pm
"This preliminary report of the BHHRG's observers on the controversial second round of the Ukrainian presidential elections challenges the widely-disseminated media image of government-sponsored fraud at the expense of an untainted opposition on the basis of first-hand reporting."

Ukraine Country Reports: British Helsinki Human Rights Group
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 01:54 pm
Walter, from what I remember the BHHRG is quite the controversial group ... I can see if I can look back up when I came upon some earlier rather unsavoury moves on their part (re: Serbia? Georgia?) ... I dont think they're accepted by the Helsinki Groups elsewhere in Europe ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 02:00 pm
Here's Wikipedia on them:

Quote:
Despite its name, it is not an official Helsinki Committee; the United Kingdom's official Helsinki Committee is the British Helsinki Subcommittee of the Parliamentary Human Rights Group, which was established in 1976. The "About us" page on the BHHRG web site (as of 28 September 2004) neither states anything about the historical background of the Helsinki Committee nor does it make any attempt to clarify the relationship between itself and the Helsinki Committee. This apparently deliberate confusion has prompted the International Helsinki Federation to publicly disclaim any connection with the BHHRG and has led others to accuse the BHHRG of "nam[ing] itself so as to usurp the prestige of its elder".

[..] It has been criticised by other human rights activists and genuine Helsinki Committees for publishing views which are markedly at odds with the generally accepted picture of affairs in Europe. For instance:

* it condemned the November 2003 revolution in Georgia as a coup d'etat;
* it has strongly criticised Western support for the Serbian opposition to Slobodan Milosevic;
* it has claimed that elections in Belarus have met democratic standards;

[..] The BHHRG has been subjected to particularly strong criticism in the Czech Republic for claiming that the country's Roma population do not suffer discrimination, a proposition which very few observers accept. A Roma member of the Czech parliament, Monika Horakova, published an open letter in 1999 condemning the BHHRG's claims:

Quote:
I had thought that the Helsinki Group was a non-partisan body interested in exposing and helping to solve human rights abuses in the world. This report caused me to question my previously held beliefs. However, I have since learned that the BHHRG has no connection to the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights in Vienna. It is a disgrace that the BHHRG is using the good Helsinki name to mislead the public into thinking that their racist propaganda is somehow affiliated with the well-respected Helsinki Group.


[..] The membership and political orientation of the BHHRG is somewhat obscure. Its trustees include a number of prominent right-wing British Eurosceptics (notably the Oxford academic Mark Almond and political commentator John Laughland), which perhaps explains the slant of some of the BHHRG's views. A common theme in many of its reports has been a critical view of perceived Western "meddling in the internal affairs" of central and east European countries, notably Yugoslavia (now Serbia and Montenegro) and Belarus. Many of its reports refer to the "New World Order" [3] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22New+World+Order%22+site%3Abhhrg.org&btnG=Google+Search), which suggests that the BHHRG is ideologically allied with far-right groups such as the John Birch Society which oppose the activities of multinational organisations such as the UN and OSCE on the grounds that they are steps towards a "world government".


It appears that the BHHRG is an exponent of what one could call the Western pendant of the "red-brown coalition" - (far-)right-wing politicians who come out in defence of such figures as Milosevic or Putin because those are seen as fellow opponents of liberals worldwide ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 02:06 pm
Thanks for explaining that!

Although, I know about that, nimh.

But I do think that even such **** should be mentioned.

Here's the link to the correct Britsih Huelsinki Human Righ Subcommittee:

United Kingdom: British Helsinki Subcommittee of the Parliamentarian Human Rights Group

Quote:
PLEASE NOTE that the so called British Helsinki Group is NOT affiliated with the IHF
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 02:55 pm
Fmom my morning paper paper: A provocative view of the west & it's attittudes toward the Ukraine situation & revolutions "elsewhere".


The West closes its eyes to the truth in Ukraine

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Opinion/The-West-closes-its-eyes-to-the-truth-in-Ukraine/2004/11/29/1101577415208.html?oneclick=true
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 03:44 pm
Hmm, the "oscewatch.org", where the author John Laughland is a trustee, is part of the above mentioned "British Helsinki Group" :wink:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 03:46 pm
Tell me more, Walter! I know nothing & wondered ..... Confused
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 04:59 pm
msolga wrote:
Tell me more, Walter! I know nothing & wondered ..... Confused

The author of the opinion piece you linked in is John Laughland of the BHHRG ... to read more about him and his organisation read my post right above ...
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 05:06 pm
Thanks, nimh, I've already done a bit of reading this morning & understand where he's coming from. Pretty much what I'd thought. Just decided I'd post that article as a view from "the other side". Always interests me, what the other side is saying & where they're coming from .... :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 05:16 pm
Of course, msolga. I only referred back up to the other post about him because you had said to Walter, "tell me more, I know nothing & wondered".

Interesting snippets from the Kyiv Post, when I was browsing it yesterday morning:

Quote:
Analysis

[..] Meanwhile, more Ukrainian officials have abandoned the current regime, expressing their support for or allegiance to Yushchenko, even as millions of pro-democracy demonstrators back him on Ukraine's streets.

As of Nov. 27, more than 470 foreign ministry officials had publicly pledged their support for Yushchenko, essentially recognizing him as the next president of Ukraine. More law enforcement officials have also pledged support or allegiance to Yushchenko and his campaign. The support of these officials puts more pressure on the ruling regime and on officials who haven't yet switched sides. Their support would be crucial for Yushchenko's chances of rising to power through a quasi-legal forced coup, should events develop in that direction.

Imagine if Yanukovich wins this contest for power after all. The above means that he would then basically be forced to first do a purge of all these people who have now committed to an uprising against him. Such a purge would in turn mean that he would be forced to rely much more strongly on the conservative/collectivist pro-Russian east than he must originally have intended ... which in turn obviously will fuel new resentment again.

What all that means, in short, is that whatever happens now, a preservation of the status quo as was originally envisaged by the government is no longer possible ...

Also:

Quote:
[..] Kharkiv governor Yevhen Kushnyarov on Nov. 26 declared that his oblast would rule itself and control the military on its territory before it takes orders from what it calls extreme right-wing factions allied with Yushchenko. Parliamentarians in the eastern oblasts Donetsk and Lugansk and in the southern part of the Crimean peninsula called for the creation of an eastern autonomous Ukrainian republic. They began blacking out Ukrainian television channels that are reporting objectively about the current situation in Ukraine, leaving only propaganda outlets on the air. Officials from these regions also pledged to stop sending budget revenues from their industrial regions to the capital.


The threat of the pro-Yakunovich South/East to break off if the pro-Yushchenko demonstrators get their way appears to be getting some support from Russia itself:

Quote:
Union for local self-government established in eastern Ukraine

A congress of local governments meeting in Severodonetsk, in Luhansk oblast, has decided to create an interregional committee for local self-governance, Ukrainian News reports.

The decision was supported by 3,576 people, members of the local councils who came from Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zhitomir, Zakarpattya, Kyiv, Luhansk, Nikolaev, Odessa, Poltava and Kharkiv oblasts, plus Crimea.

[..] Delegates also decided to recognize the Nov. 21 presidential run-off election as legitimate.

Prime Minster Viktor Yanukovych and Moscow mayor Yury Luzhkov arrived in Luhansk oblast on the morning of Nov. 28 to take part in the congress.
0 Replies
 
 

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