Contradiction of Evangelical Christians

Re: Contradiction of Evangelical Christians


What exactly do you think their stance is, that they are contradicting it?

I your looking for reason and logic in religious beliefs? That would be similar to Diagenese finding that honest man.

Pardon my spelling.

"Etruscia, the conseratives have the death penalty right. They have abortion wrong."

Consersative as they come, BIG Supporter of the Death Penalty. Live in Alabama (death P. State).

Where is the "justice" in abortion.

Putting people in prison for life gives a lifer great power while he serves his sentance. It takes many years (automatic appeals, etc.) to actually kill a prisoner who has many chances and had a choice in their actions.

We should take consequences for our actions. I know all the "poor rape" senarios, but the AVERAGE abortion seeker is an unwed teeager or youn woman, who is looking for a quick fix for a stupid choice. I am not for outlawing abortion, (not every one is a christian and should not be forced to live by our views) but I am FOR ADOPTION WHENEVER POSSIBLE. I think we should fund such alternatives and provide financial and emotional support for the mom (and DADS who get no choice) and arrange adoptions. Many of us will take a child (any race, any circumstance) if we just had the means to get thru the process. KILL LESS, LOVE MORE and be more responsible. THINK and encourage others to do so.... Enough Preaching, Sorry, but having BEEN adopted into a LOVING GOOD home, under the average circumstance. Thanks Birth MOM for not aborting me. PS in case you are wondering, I turned out pretty good; and if you're not, that's ok too--no grudges, no "need" to know. THANKS

Those who choose to abort are not seeking justice, they are seeking a solution which suits them. If you are thinking im somehow "for abortion" your wrong, but i am "pro choice" because i think it is entirely the womans decision. Adoption is a great alternative and should be funded more in your country.

"kill less, love more" thats great but there isnt any justice in abortion. Murdering(which it is) a convicted convict, because he killed someone is blatant hypocrisy. There are chances for these people to be rehabilitated, and a possibility (although how slight) to be released back into society.

One thing to remember is no amount of laws, or death penalties is ever going to stop people from killing eachother. ITs not going to stop men from raping women. The people who commit such atrocities have no care for consequences and give it no consideration.

ET: I'm with you, I was stating the difference between supporting the DEATH penalty for a crime, and Abortion for Convenience. People should (ultimately they can) be able to CHOOSE death for themselves.

My late husband died of Cancer and we talked about the possiblity of him taking himself out, if it got to much to bear. (Luckily it did not) Just the discussion divided my family.

I work (not a caregiver) in the Mental Health field, but I have never had much patience with "sucidie" threats. I know mostly its a cry for help and I realize depression is a REAL issue and people suffering from it DESERVE help, but if you truly do not value life.. well quit if you want to, just do me a favor and don't leave a mess for me to clean up.

But the unborn have NO voice, they have chosen nothing. Only happenstance has allowed their existence so far. If the Mother can live with it, I can, but I BEG everyone who may become pregnant, to consider what to do IF>>> before it happens. PLEASE GIVE YOUR CHILD A CHANCE TO BE if at all possible. Many things are legal, but not necessiarly right.

Sorry to sound so "cold" in the last post but:

I work with people everyday who struggle with overwhelming odds, who value and appreciate everyday. Everything they do; from what they eat, to when they can go outside is controlled and they would not be here if they did not have some mental problem. But in my history out of several thousand patients, we have only had 2 sucidide attempts (no successes).

Right now one of our Social Workers is trying to make arrangements for a baby who is expected to be born this spring to a 24 year old MR girl who is HIV +. This girl is an inspiration. She already knows she will not raise her child or even see it. (She is prepared for adoption proceedings to take place.) Her only concern has been that she be able to live long enough to deliver the child and hopes its healthy. She is not in good physical shape and has no resources. Her family disowned her when they found out about the HIV. She came to us from Jail where she had been arrested for Shoplifting (wow talk about limited options-but that's another thread).

When I see people like her, I realize I have no problems, and I feel guilty for complaining about the triva I consider problems. This girl is convinced having the baby is her reason for existance ("the last good thing I may be able to do before I die"), and she does everything in her power to bring it to pass. BE GRATEFUL PEOPLE, there are those who are better persons in poorer circumstances, who don't whine and they don't quit, just because fate dealt them a poor hand.

Fate had nothing to do with it. Im guessing this HIV+ girl was promiscuous. That has nothing to do with fate. Is giving it up for adoption a better decision than abortion? Whose to say, you cant because we do not know all the possible outcomes.

In my opinion people who murder should suffer the same fate as those they have murdered. Rehabilition my rear end. I will agree with rehabilitation the day those they have killed rise from the dead.
Regarding abortion, that in my opinion is in the hands of the women and if possible the father to be.
As to fetal stem cell research, it is absolute insanity to curtail it in any way. That issue by itself has generaterd in me an enduring dislike for Christian Evangelism and absolute hatred for G. Bush.

Why should people who murder suffer the same fate? Does it accomplish anything? If giving every murderer the death penalty, and yet it does not stop, slow down or curb the amount of people being murdered, isnt it just needless killing?

What would you like it to accomplish. As far as i am concerned if you take a life, your life should be taken.
Call it punishment or revenge if you will. I call it getting what you've earned.

I would not like to accomplish anything, which it doesnt, which makes it unjustified. The 'eye for an eye' ideology is one which only perpetuates violence within a society. Im sure youve heard "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" Ghandi.

Etruscia
Meaningless platitudes. You reap what you sow is more meaningful.

It is not meaningful because it does not work. Give me one instance where the 'eye for an eye' methodology works. Rapists should be raped. Murderers killed. Decapitators decapitated. Does this stop Rapists? Does it stop Murderers? Does it stop Decapitators?

It stops murderers
Dead in their tracks.

I agree about justice. It accomplishes nothing to "show this guy how it feels".

That's not the point.

The point is, these people suck. They are useless. Some are beyond rehabilitation by any known methods or are too big a risk... they could fake it. So it's either keep them locked up or kill them. If we could make them slaves in concentration camps, that would be even better than the death penalty. But we can't, because most people find that unpalatable, so we could never get legislation like that through.

These people have forsaken the social contract, and as far as I am concerned they are animals. Dangerous, filthy animals. And I'm not about to waste food on them. Would you volunteer at a prison?

What it does stop is the bleeding heart judges and people that after x number of years crying that the killer has paid his debt to society and been rehabilitated. Resulting in a release from prison.
Not to digress too far from the subject but I would also make a sentence of life in prison meaningful. To many times that life sentence ends up as fifteen years in prison and a return to crime and yes murder.

To go from the specific to the general is poor reasoning.
Your examples of violent behavior towards convicted criminals is useless, exaggerated analogy.
Murder is a crime where the victim is powerless to judge or pardon the murderer.
Therefore, a civilized society must judge the damage done.
As the United States has one of the most evolved and civilized justice systems ever invented by secular society, the US has experimented, through trial and error, what the penalties for murder should be.
It has found it just, in certain cases, to eliminate the murderer.
Big whoop.
The US system of justice tends to work from the general and go to the specific, which is sound logic.

Your analogy of an eye for an eye is a Christian invention of what they do not believe, but that they believed Jews believed.
It is a worthless and false analogy as Judaism never believed in "an eye for an eye" as stated by Christian apologists.

And, why should a mother have the right to kill another person just because that person is living inside the mother's body?
We do not extend that kind of decision making to someone that owns the house you live in.
We do not even extend that kind of decision making to someone who owns and controls life support systems.
It is a ridiculous premise that a mother should be able to murder her unborn infant just because he or she is inside of her.
Unless, of course, that person inside of the mother is trying to kill the mother. Then, terminating that life would be both permissible and logical.

"I call it getting what you've earned. "

Me too.

An eye for an eye will only make the world go blind ONLY if we are all Killers.

There is evil in the world, like it or not. You cannot save the whole world. What is the alternative, "humane" isolation from society for the rest of their life at my (tax) expense.

What about the victim's family, or what does JUSTICE mean. It is supposed to be a JUSTICE system, is it not.

And speaking of JUSTICE, should an unborn baby be punished for the "sins of the mother". That seems a greater IN justice than punishing someone convicted of a crime.

Somethimes I think the religious rightt and the political left are closer related than they think.

Wash your mouth!

Moishe: I dont know what youre thinking but what i said has absolutely nothing to do with religion other than teh saying may be derived from a religious source. It has nothing to do with Christians vs. Jews, of which i am neither. The comparisons between something(one) living inside of you and someone living in a house are shoddy at best. That is unless the house is alive, in which case the house can decide whether or not to kill you.

duce: you talk like there is a universal definition of justice. Justice to some is definitely not justice to others. That is a matter of opinion when "justice" has been preformed. And as for your 'eye for an eye' comment, you must have not been thinking.

"An eye for an eye will only make the world go blind ONLY if we are all Killers."

Obviously there needs to be victims in this twisted equation. One a murderer commits an atrocity by killing a person, thats one life that was lost. By killing him, you may get your "justice" but you are killing one more person than you had to. I thought you guys were pro-life not pick and choose pro-life.

Binnyboy: "and as far as I am concerned they are animals. Dangerous, filthy animals."

I think you must have a very twisted definition of what animals are. Animals are far better when it comes to LIFE than we are. We kill for the sake of killing, they dont. Im hoping you meant to say they are filthy humans.

Etrusci wrote



The difference being the killers life is worthless and needs ending. The atrocity letting him/her live.