Bigot? Racist? Something Else?

Abortion is just an example for how values may change from one culture to the next, that's all. And I for one never ever discussed abortion on a2k prior to this thread, so I don't feel a need to stop discussing it, as an example of the broader issue of moral relativism. Just don't read my posts if you don't like them.

isn't that every pregnancy?

Exactly!

Thank you.

That's a strawman though.

Do you value freedom?

I do.

Do you know of anyone who doesn't value their freedom?

That's not the point.

That's not an answer. Yes or no.

hehehehe.

The question you should be asking is this: do you value individual freedom to a greater degree than, say, equity. Because most moral issue involve weighting the relative importance of conflicting values. For instance on sex-selective abortion, one needs to take into consideration the principle of individual freedom (of the mother to chose her baby's sex) vs the principle of gender equality and the needs of society for an even sex ratio. We all use different scales to do that. So even if every person on earth would value freedom and gender equality, they might not value them to the exact same extent. Our HIERARCHIES of values, our priorities, are different.

However, the question you believe I should be asking is not the question I asked. Do you know of anyone who doesn't value their freedom? Yes or no please, no caveats and approximations.

The question had nothing to do with the extent to which different people value freedom.

Just a quick word about forum etiquette: It is customary to quote the post, or segment of post, that you are responding to, unless yours is the very next post.

So what is the straw man you are referring to?

You are awfully demanding Glennn. First you get upset when people aren't interested in answering every one of your sometimes irrelevant question. Now you are acting as if you are an authority on forum etiquette.

People have the freedom to interact here as we see fit.

Yes, I actually met a few Chinese who didn't seem to care much about it. And historically, most people didn't care that much. What was the value of individual freedom in slave-based societies?

I also know some people who don't value gender equality, or who think that racism is A-okay, or that it's fine to cut off parts of children's genitalia, be it a clitoris or a foreskin, or that it's evil to eat meat.

I happen to disagree with them.

Yes, Glenn is high maintenance... :-)

How often are such arguments made?

Most Pro-lifers know why women choose abortion. They understand the difficulties and pressures created by an unwanted pregnancy, they simply don't believe that abortion is the proper response since it means the end of an innocent life.

You don't have to agree with them but you should acknowledge that their position is as based on their personal sense of morality as is yours. The most specious and absurd claim of Pro-choicers is that those who are opposed to abortion are motivated by a desire to control womens' bodies.

I am Pro-life but I have a daughter and, thankfully, she never had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, but if she had and she decided to have an abortion I wouldn't have called her a murderer and disowned her. It would have been, as it is for every woman, her decision, but I would have counseled her that the convenience of an abortion wasn't worth the life of an innocent. It would have been hard for her to go through the pregnancy and either keep the child or give it up for adoption, but tests of our character and morality are rarely, if ever, easy. My wife and I would have given her all of our support no matter what she chose, but I've no problem saying that if she chose abortion I would have been disappointed. I hasten to say though that I don't think she would have, but one never knows for sure.

Anyone who is against abortion but is unwilling to support women with unwanted pregnancies is a churl. Most Pro-life organizations and virtually every Pro-life woman I've met is.

The Law allows abortions. I would prefer that it didn't but it does, and so Pro-lifers need to ask themselves if their opposition to abortion greater than their dedication to a nation of laws. I can understand why some might opt for the former over the latter, but if they feel motivated to take actions that are against the Law, then they better accept the consequences and punishment of the Law, and they should never harm or take lives in adavancement of their cause.

Wow! Apparently I've hit a nerve. Nothing I can do about that. And nothing you can do about it either. Welcome to your world.

I don't recall getting upset. Perhaps you'd care to point out the post where I got upset.

I think the core of your discontent with me is that I pointed out your contradictory position on some things, wherein you condemn those things, but you also support the rights of those who practice those things to continue practicing those things.

Also, you never did get back to me on whether or not you would prefer that I not ask you whether or not you consider the use of spermicide or the morning-after-pill to be murder. If you don't tell me that you don't wish to answer, then I'm likely to ask you again until you answer.

Must I remind you of all the names and derogatory remarks that you couldn't help spewing out at me in an0ther thread. If I am high maintenance, then you are broke.