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Obstruction of Justice: Trump asked Comey to shut down investigation of Flynn

 
 
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 05:50 pm
Apparently Comey wrote memos (before he was fired) after he was concerned about Trump's behavior. Trump apparently told the FBI director to "shut it down" referring to the investigation of the Michael Flynn.

This is a level of stupidity, combined with disregard for law or respect for the office, that has never been seen before. As of tonight, there is not a single GOP elected official stepping up to defend him. (And to think, the day started with news that Trump leaked classified information to the Russian Ambassador without having been briefed on its importance.)


I have been hoping that Trump can last 4 years. I now rather doubt it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 3,049 • Replies: 60

 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 05:57 pm
@maxdancona,
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politics/trump-james-comey-memo/index.html
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 06:23 pm
I remember that great song from that movie "Frozen"...

How did it go?

Shut it down! shut it down!... No, that's not it. It was Let it go! Let it go!....

It is almost as if those words had different meanings and spellings and weren't interchangeable.
tibbleinparadise
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 07:10 pm
@maxdancona,
My own personal conspiracy theory is:

The powers that be put Trump up because he was elect-able given the current political and social climate. Once in office the case to impeach him begins. Then once he's impeached they have a tow the line lifer politician in place to step up and do whatever. The sheer chaos of impeaching Trump will so occupy the media that all manner of shenanigans will take place and all we'll here about is Trump.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he doesn't last a year,
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 07:37 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix,

At what point do you stop defending Trump? I make no serious claim to be able to do the job of president (I joke sometimes, but not seriously). But even I know enough to not make these mistakes...

I wouldn't say anything to Russian diplomats without very carefully understanding the briefing book, and I certainly know enough to not say anything like "let it go" to the FBI director about an investigation of someone close to me.

You would know enough to not make these mistakes, wouldn't you? It is not just that they are ethical lapses, they are incompetent ethical lapses. His job involves doing his homework; understanding the briefing book (his staff hands him a book that tells him what he can say before important meetings with foreign officials), and understanding his ethical responsibility. He doesn't seem to even be making the effort to do his job.

This is the president of the United States. This isn't some schlub off the street. He isn't graded on a curve. What he does and says has real consequences. You will see fewer and fewer elected officials standing up for him after the last two errors (each of which were pretty egregious). At some point you need to stop covering for someone who, being the president of the United States, needs to know better.
ossobucotemp
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 07:52 pm
@maxdancona,
I do think of him as a schlub off the street, and a few other sets of words.
Almost scarier, to me of course, is his fandom as he racks up the demolition.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 08:19 pm
@maxdancona,
How does the media have any credibility left at all for you? At what point do you stop believing what "unnamed sources" say when the media has admitted to wanting Trump to fail?

What do you think world leaders and diplomats discuss when they have meetings? The latest episode of "The Voice"? Despite everyone's misgivings, Russia is an ally in the war on Terror.

You, and so many others here, want to believe so badly that Trump will fail that you believe anything and everything your told that is negative about him. Like rabid dogs on a rotten bone.

These "errors" have been repudiated. McMaster's said as much. Firing Comey was also not an error. Just 4 months ago every Dem in Congress was calling for his head. It's political bullshit.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 08:35 pm
@McGentrix,
You didn't answer my question McGentrix. My question was at what point do you stop defending Trump? Your rather ironic response was to attack the media, compare me to a "rabid dog" and talk about The Voice and to claim that everything was "repudiated". We all know that you are aggressively defending Trump. The question was at what point will you stop.

Let's say that these "unnamed sources" become named sources, and that there is clear evidence that Trump asked Comey to stop the investigation of Flynn; will you stop defending Trump at that point?

Let's say (hypothetically speaking of course) that the tapes that Trump implied exist actually exist... and on these tapes Trump asks Comey to stop the investigation. Would that be enough?

Is there any point where Trump could do something so preposterous that you will stop rationalizing your support for him? Republican elected officials are already jumping ship (as of the news tonight).

That is the question.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 08:52 pm
@maxdancona,
Well, I'm not going to answer your question.

Will you answer mine though? How many lies will you allow to be thrown at you before you actually distrust the "lamestream" media? It was a well known fact that Trump was not a politician. He wasn't going to suddenly become a smooth talking typical lying politician like all the others. So far, every single move he's made has been thwarted by one party or the other.

I can guarantee you one thing for sure though, if Trump gets impeached, the office of President is basically over. It will be a long, long time before we have another President that serves a full term. Especially if he gets impeached for the bullshit going around now.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 08:58 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
How many lies will you allow to be thrown at you before you actually distrust the "lamestream" media?


I can answer your question.... it's very few. The "lamestream" media has a bias (which I understand and sometimes am frustrated by), but I don't see them as dishonest with the facts.

The power of the media is the sources. I have not seen any examples of where unnamed sources from multiple outlets turn out to not be correct (with the possible exception of the leadup to the Iraq war, but that was a concerted propaganda effort).
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:00 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
I can guarantee you one thing for sure though, if Trump gets impeached, the office of President is basically over. It will be a long, long time before we have another President that serves a full term. Especially if he gets impeached for the bullshit going around now.


We have had one president impeached in recent history. He deserved it. He survived it. We have had one president who resigned in the face of impeachment (before he was actually impeached). He also deserved it.

In both cases our country survived and moved on.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:06 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
It was a well known fact that Trump was not a politician. He wasn't going to suddenly become a smooth talking typical lying politician like all the others. So far, every single move he's made has been thwarted by one party or the other.


The argument that I am making is that Trump is uniquely incompetent. It is part of the president's job to manage the media. It is part of the president's job to read briefing notes from his national security staff. It is part of the president's job to understand the ethical requirements of the job relating to investigations.

The fact that he is being "thwarted by one party or the other" is a sign of his incompetence. He has all the power that every other president has had (with the advantage of his party controlling both houses of Congress).

He isn't doing his job. That is the point. The question is whether in failing to do his job he has crossed the line into gross negligence or ethical failing.

But you are correct that he is being thwarted.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:22 pm
@maxdancona,
Trump is hardly "incompetent". He's actually been trying to fulfill his campaign promises. Maybe you guys are so confused by a President doing what he said he was going to do, that you've mistaken competence for incompetence? You have absolutely no way of knowing what Trump is or isn't doing other than what "unnamed sources" have told reporters. I give VERY little credence to "unnamed sources". Even when Obama was President.

Please share with us some examples of him not doing his job. If you can point those parts out with reference to the US Constitution, the better. If not, we can still discuss it.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:35 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Obstruction of Justice

Setting aside for a moment the question of whether such a crime has even been committed by Trump, since the Democrats were OK with Bill Clinton committing obstruction of justice, who cares if a different president does the same thing?


maxdancona wrote:
Apparently Comey wrote memos (before he was fired) after he was concerned about Trump's behavior. Trump apparently told the FBI director to "shut it down" referring to the investigation of the Michael Flynn.

What I'm hearing is a claim that Trump asked him to shut it down if he didn't have a major objection to doing so.

Presuming for a moment that this claim is true, how would this in any way be obstruction of justice?


maxdancona wrote:
This is a level of stupidity, combined with disregard for law or respect for the office, that has never been seen before.

To me it looks like the Democrats are completely out of touch with reality.

If Democratic leaders start passing out Kool Aid, don't drink any.


maxdancona wrote:
I have been hoping that Trump can last 4 years. I now rather doubt it.

Here is a sample of reality for you to get your bearings:

Trump will be president for eight years.

History will regard Trump as the equal of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.

The Republicans will hold the White House for a minimum of 20 years.

When the Democratic Party does eventually, one day in the distant future, retake the White House, it will only be after Democratic moderates purge their party of all the liberal extremists and nominate a "Trump-lite" to be their standard bearer.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:40 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
What I'm hearing is a claim that Trump asked him to shut it down if he didn't have a major objection to doing so.

Presuming for a moment that this claim is true, how would this in any way be obstruction of justice?


Because it is. A president can't use his office to try to influence an investigation.

PS: Almost forgot. When Comey didn't shut the investigation down, Trump fired him. You somehow figured that still doesn't constitute obstruction of justice?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:50 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Because it is. A president can't use his office to try to influence an investigation.

Cite?


Blickers wrote:
When Comey didn't shut the investigation down, Trump fired him. You somehow figured that still doesn't constitute obstruction of justice?

Correct. I see no obstruction.

I would be happy if Trump did commit obstruction. It would be a delight to watch the Democrats squeal with rage while Trump pulls a Clinton.

But I just don't see it.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 09:58 pm
@oralloy,
I can't wait 4 years to see if you are right. What is your prediction for 2018?

Personally I hope Trump makes it 4 years. He is great for people who think as I do.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 10:06 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I can't wait 4 years to see if you are right. What is your prediction for 2018?

I'm expecting the Republicans to make gains in the Senate. The House should be close to unchanged, although there could be a handful of losses for the Republicans.

The gains in the Senate will be the main headline, with the election being seen as a Republican victory even if they lose a couple House seats.

It'll take 20 years to see if I'm right about my prediction that the Republicans will hold the White House for the next 20 years.


maxdancona wrote:
Personally I hope Trump makes it 4 years. He is great for people who think as I do.

Actually he is your doom. Liberalism is over as an effective political force in America.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 10:08 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Correct. I see no obstruction.

Well, using the influence of the office of the President to try to get an investigation halted is obstruction of justice. At this point, it doesn't matter if you admit it or not. It is.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2017 10:09 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Well, using the influence of the office of the President to try to get an investigation halted is obstruction of justice. At this point, it doesn't matter if you admit it or not. It is.

Cite?
 

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