POSSIBLE EVIDENCE THAT H.(??) LIVED IN CALIFORNIA 130,000 ybp

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

there is an underground railroad to protect American scientific research from the Trump government. they started saving things (at the latest) summer of 2016 when Trump became potential POTUS. good planning on the scientists' parts

That would be an excellent framework to expand into a movement to start spiriting ancient human remains out of the US.

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@ehBeth,

I looked up theSpirit Cave Mummy, the oldest bone depository housing two skeletons. These were found in 1940 and , c14 dating and , ultimately DNA have determined the linkage to Native American(confederated tribes take ownership)
The skeletons were placed in lined cedar reliqueries and reburied at one of two sites now used for NAGRPRA reburials.

One of the arguments made for the passing of NAGPRA is that its in agreement with the first Amendment of ou Constitution (specifically the "free expression" clause).

It not only affects "Amerind" NAtive Americans but also Hawaiiqn native people

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@oralloy,

Quote oralloy:

Quote:

These remains are thousands of years old. They have little connection with anyone living today.
We have genetic links going back to before 40,000 years ago. If the remains are ancestral to the present day inhabitants, then there is definitely a connection.

And the scientists are not treating these remains with disrespect when they study them.

Quote oralloy:
[quoteNonsense. Scientific study of remains from thousands of years ago is not genocide.][/quote]
It's a continuation of a long standing genocide. Native Americans forcibly evicted from their home lands, Westerners causing the loss of 90% of the population, and now desecrating Native burial grounds with NO permission asked of the descendants. But hey, no disrespect.

Quote oralloy:

Quote:

Not if those pre-Columbian people were Europeans.

Fair enough. Find some pre-Columbian remains, test the DNA, and if the results show the remains are Europeans, you win the prize. Until you produce these pre-Columbian European remains, Native Americans should have a big part in saying what happens to the bones of people that most likely were the Natives' forebears.

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@Blickers,

I think oralloy is unable to put himself in the place of others and actully try to understand why Native Americns look at their ancestors relics as "sacred". He misses that entirely so his argument is almost autistic sounding. :I will deal only in some incontrovertible facts

",I have no room or empathy of others beliefs or practices, I see no reason why these should be respected in any fashion other than what our superior civilization deems proper".
Hed make a great 1880's Indian Settlement agent where we forbad the people on the reservations from practicing their millenial-long cultures and forbad them from even learning their own native languages. Of course we learnt all this from our colonial teachers, the Brits, who also were initially clueless about the value nd contribution that diversity and other cultures provide to the overall tapestry of civilization.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

We have genetic links going back to before 40,000 years ago. If the remains are ancestral to the present day inhabitants, then there is definitely a connection.

No connection that would justify preventing scientists from studying and testing the remains.

Even modern remains of an immediate family member can be subject to a government-conducted autopsy if the police suspect foul play in their death.

Blickers wrote:

It's a continuation of a long standing genocide.

Nonsense. The scientific study of remains from thousands of years ago is not genocide.

Blickers wrote:

Native Americans forcibly evicted from their home lands, Westerners causing the loss of 90% of the population, and now desecrating Native burial grounds with NO permission asked of the descendants.

And rightly so. This thread makes it very clear that uncultured savages have no business running things, and civilized people are right to forcibly take charge.

Blickers wrote:

But hey, no disrespect.

Scientific study of ancient remains is not disrespectful in any way.

Blickers wrote:

Fair enough. Find some pre-Columbian remains, test the DNA, and if the results show the remains are Europeans, you win the prize.

Nice catch-22 there. How can remains be tested when you are blocking the testing to begin with?

Blickers wrote:

Until you produce these pre-Columbian European remains, Native Americans should have a big part in saying what happens to the bones of people that most likely were the Natives' forebears.

Native Americans have no right to have a say in any remains that have not been tested and clearly identified as being Native American.

Further, no one (Native American or otherwise) has a right to deprive humanity of the knowledge that can be gained from the study of the remains of their ancestors from thousands of years ago.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I think oralloy is unable to put himself in the place of others and actully try to understand why Native Americns look at their ancestors relics as "sacred". He misses that entirely so his argument is almost autistic sounding. :I will deal only in some incontrovertible facts

What in the world is wrong with dealing only in incontrovertible facts?

In my view that is by far the best way to approach life.

farmerman wrote:

",I have no room or empathy of others beliefs or practices, I see no reason why these should be respected in any fashion other than what our superior civilization deems proper".

This thread is ample evidence that third-world savages have no business running things, and civilized people should forcibly take over and run things.

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"IT HAS BECOME APPALLINGLY OBVIOUS THAT OUR TECHNOLOGY EXCEEDS OUR HUMANITY"
Einstein

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@oralloy,

so, "third world fossils" are what you call Kennewick man eh?. Did you realize that , in those days (when K 'man was extant), "high civilization" reveled in murder,infanticide, and genocide as standard means of diplomacy. I think your overall values are a little might screwed in the head.

What did Ghandi call the 7 deadly sins??

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I think oralloy is unable to put himself in the place of others and actully try to understand why Native Americns look at their ancestors relics as "sacred". He misses that entirely so his argument is almost autistic sounding.

That's an insult to autistic people, most of whom care deeply about others' feelings. An inability to empathise isn't autism, it's psychopathy.

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@izzythepush,

sorry, I admit the error in terms. Its almost that oralloy IMHO, has no human empathy or even respect for the practices and beliefs of others, yet he feels sanguine with that.

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@farmerman,

Nonsense. I have lots of empathy. That is why I always speak out against wrongdoing when most people are silent.

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Looked around nd found some futher site data. This one about Pendejo caves in NM which show occupation evidence in substrata dated at >55K years. (A three point extension methods of a cleaned up C14 sample was extened beyond itts limit of calibration. (The three point method suggested an age of about 75 K years,ALSO a period of another Beringean " Standstill".

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POSSIBLE EVIDENCE THAT H.(??) LIVED IN CALIFORNIA 130,000 ybp

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