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Will France follow Britain out of the EU?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2017 05:38 pm
@Olivier5,
I don't think that the histories of our two countries since the 18th century supports this theory very well. De Tocqueville compared our revolutions and found the French wanting , The history since then speaks for itself. However after two centuries of conflict it is understandable that they would find peace and security now tied to Germany.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2017 10:11 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
r However after two centuries of conflict it is understandable that they would find peace and security now tied to Germany.
Well, under the grandson of Charles Martel and son of Pepin III we were an united empire Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2017 11:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Journée de l'Europe aujourd'hui:

Quote:
Le gouvernement français propose de placer l’ensemble de la production franco-allemande de charbon et d’acier sous une Haute Autorité commune (…). La mise en commun des productions de charbon et d’acier assurera immédiatement l’établissement de bases communes de développement économique, première étape de la Fédération européenne.
Source: Robert Schuman, déclaration du 9 mai 1950.

More at wikipidea's report about the Schuman declaration
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 07:24 am
@georgeob1,
You realized my post was a copy-paste of an American satirical piece, right? In other words, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. See also the context: Water and I were sharing jokes about the French elections.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 07:33 am
@georgeob1,
Germany can't do the EU without France. If anything the importance and actual power of France in EU grew from important to fundamental.
The black and white "who is the boss" dichotomy thinking always misses the point. It doesn't matter Germany is the biggest EU economy, France is now central to the EU project survival. Hopefully, the French will put that power to good use. In retrospective, getting rid of the British was perhaps the best thing that happened to the EU project on the long run.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 07:51 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You realized my post was a copy-paste of an American satirical piece, right? In other words, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. See also the context: Water and I were sharing jokes about the French elections.


And I responded in kind. You just didn't have the mental agility to get it.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 08:04 am
@georgeob1,
No, you didn't. Get yourself a sense of humor, and find the decency to not lie all the time.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 08:20 am
@Olivier5,
You are wrong again (Walter got it). Insulting and s bit childish as well.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 11:39 am
@georgeob1,
US watched as Russians hacked French systems before Macron leak, official says
Quote:
Adm Mike Rogers testifies to Senate that US cyber officials gave France a ‘heads up’ about infiltration prior to presidential election

The US watched Russians hack France’s computer networks during the presidential election – and tipped off French officials before it became public, a US cyber official has told the Senate.

France’s election campaign commission said on Saturday that “a significant amount of data” — and some fake information — was leaked on social networks following a hacking attack on Emmanuel Macron’s successful presidential campaign.

France’s cybersecurity agency is investigating what a government official described as a “very serious” breach.

The leak came 36 hours before the nation voted Sunday in a crucial presidential runoff between Macron and far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

... ... ...

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 12:33 pm
@georgeob1,
You must be the only guy who jokes about Tocqueville.

The idea is so uncongruous that I just googled "Tocqueville jokes" and am hereby reporting that I found zero, zilch, nada matches, no jokes about Tocqueville over the whole Interwebs (though I didn't check in the "dark webs").

Tocqueville himself did not cracked many jokes, it seems, during his rather serious life, at least none quoted out there. Aphorisms, yes. Jokes, no.

Anyway. There must be a first instance in everything. Nice Tocqueville joke!
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2017 01:53 pm
@Olivier5,
You appear to be trying much too hard and grasping at something. My comment was light-hearted and equally as satirical & sarcastic as was yours. That you didn't detect a dose of the same thing you were issuing to others may be a telling indicator. However, that's your problem, not mine.

de Tocqueville was indeed a very astute observer of human behavior, however I have no reason to believe he avoided humor or irony. Anyway the comment was mine, not his.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 May, 2017 12:02 am
@georgeob1,
Alexis de Tocqueville isn't remembered for his immense comic talent. But that's okay: not everybody can be as funny as you are...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 May, 2017 09:30 am
Quote:
It was never written down and never given a name, but France had a detailed plan to “protect the Republic” if far right leader Marine Le Pen was elected president, French media have reported.



The summed up story @ The Guardian: Secret plans to 'protect' France in the event of Le Pen victory emerge

The original story (in French) @ Le Nouvel Observateur: Si Le Pen avait été élue... le plan secret pour "protéger la République"
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 May, 2017 08:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Very professional of Hollande to plan ahead for a smooth transition in case Le Pen was elected, in the full respect of the constitution and with crystal-clear focus on who the likely trouble makers would have been: the extreme left. The French don't want chaos, especially in this day and age with the terrorism risk and ISIS pushing for civil war in the country.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 09:51 am
Nothing new but well said.

Brigitte Macron, Liberator
By Roger Cohen for the NYT, May 12, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/opinion/brigitte-macron-france-election-roger-cohen.html

PARIS — This is a city of stolen moments, its romance tied to realism about the vagaries of the heart. Nothing surprises. Little is judged. In the realm of sex and coupling, a shrug of the shoulders is what you get from the French. Or as they would put it with dismissive bluntness: “Bof.”

Intimacy, for the French, is nobody else’s business. A strong respect for privacy prevails. It is combined with reluctance to attach any moral baggage to people’s love lives. The effect is liberating. France does sex and food with aplomb. Guilt is not really its thing.

People come to France for its beauty, but what finally beguiles them is its civilization, at once formal and sensual, an art of living and loving.

I have been thinking of this non-judgmental French gift as the newly elected president, Emmanuel Macron, and his wife, Brigitte, prepare to move into the Élysée Palace next week. They are an unusual couple. He is 39; she is 64. They met, as everyone knows by now, when he was a teenager and she was his drama teacher, a married woman with three children. Macron, through her, now has seven grandchildren whom he embraces as his own.

To all of which the chief French response has been: Who cares? There has been a celebration, particularly among women, of the fact that the norm of the older man with the much younger wife has been challenged. (The Macron age difference is roughly the same as between President Donald Trump and his wife, Melania.) Macron told Le Parisien that, “If I were 20 years older than my wife, nobody would have thought for a single second that I couldn’t be” an intimate partner. He’s right.

There have been magazine pieces about the couple, including an interview with Brigitte in Paris Match. As Le Monde put it, “It is together that this atypical couple scaled the steps of power. Never has the wife of a candidate been as present in a presidential campaign.” But prurience and sexism have been in short supply.

Macron did have to quash a longstanding rumor, bolstered by a Russian website, that he is gay — and he did so with effective humor. Charlie Hebdo, the satirical magazine, ran a cartoon after the Macron victory of a heavily pregnant Brigitte with the caption: “He is going to perform miracles.” It has since taken a lot of heat on French social media for sexism (but of course Charlie gives equal-opportunity offense, which has long made it loved and hated, and for which some of its staff lost their lives).

What’s new in a French political context is that Macron and his wife cooperate so intensely. She is a principal adviser. She gave up a job as a French teacher to work with Macron when he became economy minister in 2014, and has remained at his side. For many, she has helped humanize the technocrat-banker with a tendency (now contained) for highfalutin jargon. Born into a provincial family of chocolatiers, she has good antennae for ‘‘la France profonde” (deep France.) Not since the song was released a half-century ago has a more emphatic affirmative answer been given to the Beatles’ question: “Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I’m sixty-four?”

At the Élysée in recent decades, spousal convergence of the Macron variety has been rare. François Hollande, who will hand over the office on Sunday to Macron, left his companion, Valérie Trierweiler, early in his presidency for the actress Julie Gayet. The mother of his four children, Ségolène Royal, has meanwhile served in his cabinet.

No sooner was Hollande’s predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy, installed at the Élysée than he split up with his wife, Cécilia Ciganer; later he married Carla Bruni. Jacques Chirac and his wife had separate apartments. François Mitterrand led a double life; his wife and mistress were both at his funeral.

The French have shrugged. That’s life. That’s passion. They are not orderly.

I was chatting about all this to Sarah Cleveland, a distinguished American law professor on sabbatical in Paris from Columbia University. She recalled how, in ninth grade, at school in Birmingham, Ala., she was made to study the reproduction of earthworms at considerable length. But when it came to the chapter on human reproduction, the embarrassed teacher said: “Go study this at home. You won’t be tested.” Nobody did, of course.

Her teenage son and daughter have had a different experience at school in Paris. “There’s a straightforward no-nonsense approach to sex education. In a recent segment my daughter had, students — boys and girls — acted out scenarios to deal with issues of consent and unwanted overtures and saying no. They’ve had classes on rape, on masturbation, on sexually transmitted diseases, even positions for sex. As a result I feel my kids are not embarrassed or afraid. They are better prepared to interact with the world. They’ve learned that sex is a normal aspect of human existence that people need to know about.”

That knowledge, that comfort, is very French, as are Macron and his wife. Theirs is a liberating victory.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:06 am
@Olivier5,
Only 49% turnout estimated at the first round of the élections législatives for 20:00h.
I'm not sure, if this will change the predicted outcome.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 12:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Looks good, the projection:

http://i.imgur.com/J009cgU.jpg
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 12:45 pm
The initial Macron jaunt to Germany included his campaign promise to demand reforms of the EU structure if France is to remain a member.

Interesting to monitor Macron's behavior regarding this statement, as well as his support from the people.

I wonder if it's playing well to the constituency that he plucked up party loyalists from the old guard parties. Following with interest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20170515-macron-first-visit-merkel-france-germany-profound-european-union-reforms

This is a bit for the archives- recalling the initial post-election news conference.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 12:59 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The initial Macron jaunt to Germany included his campaign promise to demand reforms of the EU structure if France is to remain a member.
Where and when exactly did Macron say that he (France) thought of leaving?

One of his slogans is and was "EUROPE! En marche!". And it was Macron who said:" You can’t have your cake and eat it", «Vous ne pouvez pas garder votre gâteau et le manger».
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jun, 2017 01:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Lash wrote:
The initial Macron jaunt to Germany included his campaign promise to demand reforms of the EU structure if France is to remain a member.
Where and when exactly did Macron say that he (France) thought of leaving?

One of his slogans is and was "EUROPE! En marche!". And it was Macron who said:" You can’t have your cake and eat it", «Vous ne pouvez pas garder votre gâteau et le manger».

Here.
(Excuse the ad; don't know how to avoid it.)
Macron says half of the nation is anti-EU, and he was elected owing to a promise to reform. He expects if he waffles on reform, he'll be ousted by. Frexiteer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-39765575/emmanuel-macron-says-eu-must-reform-or-face-frexit
 

 
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