Taoism/Daoism - What's the difference if any??

The only difference is the transliteration of the Chinese words "Dao/Tao" and "De/Te."

I've seen the title of Lao Zu's book written as Tao Te Ching.

Thanx Infra...

Yes, my apologies.. Tao Te Ching.. that's what I meant.

Have you read either the translation or principal source?

I have a translation by Jonathan Star that has a translation, a verbatim translation that goes by character with all of the varied meanings, notes on the verbatim version, commentary on verse 1, definition, concordance, and Wade-Pinyin Conversion, List of Radicals, and then an appendix and sources. I don't know if there's anything available in English more comprehensive than that.

But it's been a while since I've read it, and I've never taken the time to examine the verbatim translation. Oh well.

-- I noticed your name is Rei+Ki... practitioner maybe? --

Hi dauer

I'm studying rei ki healing.. but not certified as yet..

you're not jewish, are you?

No, I haven't read the book. I came across the difficulty of translating Chinese to English from reading a translation of The Analects of Confucius.

Yes, I am quite Jewish. And a level 2 reiki practitioner. Although I don't practice much at all. Just help friends and family occasionally. My mom is a reiki master. She got me to learn back when I was in high school or possibly middle school. No, when I took Reiki 2 training, during a break I was eating a sub next door, and I learned from the television that JFK Jr. had died. Whenever that was.

Dauer

My jewish bf broke up with me yesterday because his family wouldn't accept me.. Apparently it was putting too much strain on him

How quickly and interestingly this topic has swung to and fro. Don't laugh, but if you want a really good primer on Taoist philosophy without the obscurity of Lao Tzu (or Tze, who was the attributed author of the Tao Te Ching, not the translator), you should read The Tao of Pooh and The Te of Piglet, by Benjamin Hoff. Then go back and read the original sources.

Incidentally, I have read the Tao Te Ching, a heap of stuff from Chuang Tzu, who you might like, as he writes more in parable, and The Secret of the Golden Flower, (Trans. Thomas Cleary) which was a pivotal influence on Carl Jung. I dabbled with the I Ching for a bit as well, but it wasn't for me, lol. As for your bf, a Taoist would probably say, it's not that he was Jewish, it was just a family you didn't need, so let it go. Taoism is more a philosophy than a religion. In fact, one can be any religion, and still be a Taoist. Anyway, let us know how you progress in your reading. Good luck.

Oh, I'm sorry. I wish I could say something to help you feel better. Not everyone is like that and I don't approve of that attitude at all. I'm not good at comforting people. I hope you don't have too rough of a time making peace with what happened. It's not fair how his family couldn't let go and recognize it was his decision to make.

Dauer

Just to reiterate, I'm with Dauer here. I'm Jewish as well, and both my brother and I are in mixed marriages. It is obscene to me that the family felt that way and put so much pressure on your ex. For us, 'family' was always the most important thing in life, and that included accepting our choices in who we married, and making them 'family' as well. Now is probably a good time for you to do this Taoist reading.

And I'd second cav on Tao of Pooh and Te of Piglet. They're good introductions to Taoist thought. It's been a while since my Taoist phase but definitely check it out.

Lao-tze (Lit. Old Child) is the reputed author of the Tao-te-Ching. If he was a real historical character, he would have lived about the same time as confucius (circa 6th century BCE). During his life he was reputed to be the wisest man in China, rather like Socrates in that respect. He decided to leave China for the West, but was prevailed upon to write his wisdom down before leaving. The result was the tao-Te-Ching, and it was supposedly written at a single sitting. Lao-Tze disappeared then into the West. When Buddhist monks entered northern China from the West, the Chinese believed that Buddhism was the culmination of Taoist Philosophy.

Actually, there are at least three streams of Taoism.

Philosophical Taoism. This form of Taoism is based primarily on the writings of Lao-Tze and others (Mo-Tze, Chuang-Tze, etc.), and is usually what people mean in the West when they talk about Taoism. Taoism is about being in harmony with the basic nature of the Universe. Words are less reliable than direct experience. A poem may be beautiful, but it pales in comparison with the actuality of the smell of wet smoke on an Autumn morning. Taoism tends to be contemplative, and is often associated with well-educated mandarins who have grown old, and retired to solitude. There is a chinese saying, "born and buried Buddhist, Confucian for life, but Taoist in old age". The Tao-Te-Ching can be read in an afternoon, but it will take decades of close study and thought to begin to fully appreciate the thought.

Scientific Taoism. The term "Scientific" is a bit of a misnomer. This Taoist School is known for it's alchemical work, and formulations. The practitioners spent a great deal of time trying to find way of transmuting base metals into gold, finding an elixir of Eternal Life and Youth, and other similar "power" formulas. Much of scientific Taoism is pure magic, but it was from this school that gunpowder originated along with many of the other early inventions that came out of China. These Taoists were astronomers and calendar makers. They were instrumental in developing many of the elements that today we associate with Chinese traditional medicine.

Institutional Taoism. Institutional Taoism, along with Confucism, was the State religion of China. The Emperor only ruled by the Mandate of Heaven, and if he ever lost the Mandate, it was perfectly acceptable to rebel and overthrow the ruling regime ... in theory. To receive and keep the Mandate of Heaven, the Emperor was obligated to maintain strict rituals that encompassed almost every facet of his life. Administration of the government on a day-to-day basis was regulated by Confucism. Taoism, on the other hand, worked to ensure the beneficence of Heaven. The Emperor was held the Mandate so long as the realm was secure, well-regulated and prosperous. The onset of famine, floods, earthquakes, and other natural disasters signaled that the Mandate of Heaven might be withdrawn. To prevent that, the Emperor was bound by Taoist rituals and magical formulas. I've talked about dynastic cycles elsewhere, and you can find that by reviewing my posts, if you are interested.

All three of these Taoist schools are rooted in the folk religion and superstitions that are lost in the mists of early Chinese folk/cultural history. Chi, breath/animating spirit/life essence, is central to being in harmony with the natural world, and gaining power over it. Ghosts and spirits who dwell in abandoned and desolate places are one aspect. The desire for individual expression and prosperity in a society that generally subordinated the individual to the group is another aspect. How can one acquire health, wealth, longevity, and happiness? Folk superstitions and shamanistic rituals provided much of the religion followed in traditional China.

The I-Ching springs from the earliest Chinese periods and almost certainly pre-dates Philosophical Taoism. The I-Ching is a means of understanding the universal web that we are a part of, and is often used as a tool for divination. There are several systems, but the most traditional is counting of yarrow sticks. The count results in what is called a hexagram ... six lines arranged vertically. Each line is either full, or broken, and some are accentuated. Each of the lines has meaning, and contributes to the overall interpretation of the two trigrams and the hexagram as a whole. The interpretation of the hexagrams is contained in the massive work, The I-Ching. The I-Ching is filled with famous interpretations, and commentaries on the hexagrams, line positions, and trigrams.

Confucism deals with how one fits into the social fabric, and how government should be administered. Confucism deals with this life; Taoism deals with the subjective, the individual and his relationship with the unseen foundations of the natural world. Out of primitive Taoism, were born a very sophisticated philosophical Taoism; a framework for "natural philosophy", medicine and invention, and; a set of State institutions that supported Dynastic succession.

As already pointed out Lao-Tze was not a translator, but there are many excellent translations of the Tao-Te-Ching available today. Taoism is at least a semester course of comparative religion. Taoism is deceptively simple at first glance, but will reward the student who takes the time to fully internalize its basic principles.

thanx, asher.. your info was quite helpful