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Did Jesus believe the earth was flat?

 
 
dauer
 
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2004 03:39 pm
For the sake of proving the futility of another thread, I've decided to start this one. So you tell me: Did Jesus believe the earth was flat? I don't want unsupported opinions, by the way, give textual or historical evidence to support your point of view.

Dauer
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Joahaeyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2004 03:57 pm
Okay, with references Wink

From: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

Job 26:10 - "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end."

A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 - "the circle of the earth."

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe.


The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, "In that day," then in verse 34, "In that night." This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously.
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dauer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2004 04:57 pm
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to do my best to look at translations that go directly from the Hebrew.

Job 26:10 says according to the modern JPS:

"He drew a boundary on the surface of the waters, at the extreme where light and darkness meet."

But it makes more sense in context:

The shades tremble
beneath the waters and their denizens.
Sheol(or the grave) is naked before Him:
Abaddon has no cover.
He it is who stretched out Zaphon(used for heaven cf: Isa.14.13;Ps 48.3) over chaos,
Who suspended earth over emptiness.
He wrapped up the waters in his clouds;
Yet no cloud burst under their weight.
He shuts off the view of His throne,
Spreading His cloud over it.
He drew a boundary on the surface of the waters,
At the extreme where light and darkness meet.

Job 26:5-10

For context, look at the creation story. This is from Fox's translation of the Torah which is excellent because it is, well, I love it.

At the beginning of God's creating of the heavens and the earth,
when the world was wild and waste,
darkness over the face of Ocean,
rushing-spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters--

God said: Let there be light! And there was light.
God saw the light; that it was good.
God seperated the light from the darkness.
God called the light: Day! and the darkness he called: Night!
There was setting, there was dawning; one day.

God said:
Let there be a dome amid the waters,
and let it separate waters from waters! (the footnote says the dome is literally a beaten sheet of metal)
God made the dome
and separated the waters that were below the dome from the waters that were above the dome.
It was so,
God called the dome: Heaven!
There was setting, there was dawning: second day.

God said: let the waters under the heavens be gathered to one place,
and let the dry land be seen! (genesis 1:1-10)
...
God said:
Let there be lights in the dome of heavens, to separate day from night... (14)

So first light is created, and then there is a seperation to make room for the absence of light. Then a dome is created to separate the waters. This dome is not earth. It is sometimes called the firmament. It is a dome-like structure that separates the waters of the heavens -- shemayim -- from the waters inside the dome -- mayim. Then these waters gather together to make room for land. Then there is light to separate day and night.

So... What is Job talking about?

He drew a boundary on the surface of the waters,
At the extreme where light and darkness meet.

This is talking about the creation of the firmament, the dome, the boundary. It separated the waters above from the ones below. All light is in the dome of the heavens. It's still in the dome. Darkness is what lies beyond, in the waters above. Besides the light with no physical source created on the first day, there is no light outside of the firmament.

Think of lying on your back looking at the ceiling, and a projector slowly rotates the pictures around you as the days go by.

Your Isaiah quote also defeats your arguement:

...Have you not discerned
How the earth was founded?
It is He who is enthroned above the vault of the earth,
So that its inhabitants seem like grasshoppers;
Who spread out the skies like gauze,
Stretched them out like a tent to dwell in.

That's Isaiah 40:21-22

Same image. There's a vault or dome. The sky is spread out like gauze, stretched. What is it stretched around? The firmament, the dome.

Next quote.

I was there when He set the heavens into place;
When He fixed the horizon upon the deep;
When He made the heavens above firm,
and the fountains of the deep gushed forth;

proverbs 8:27-28

The heavens are seen as being put into place, firm, and the horizon is fixed because the firmament is created, upon the deep, the waters.

Finally,

You allusion isn't very strong from Luke. Clearly, they did have day and night even if the world was not round.

Dauer
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Joahaeyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2004 05:11 pm
Now it's over my head, but I tried! Wink
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