The US Should Provide Democratic Ideals...

im kinda loosing u on that
Most democratic countries such as United States promote democratic ideals too heavily, its not democracy that they need its more of a splash off communism. People have too much voice and thats why the democracies failing. However, free expression is neccessary in every democracy and that is one "ideal" that United States has very much achieved over the last hundred or so years. United States and many other democratic countries have definately push their democratic boundaries very far. Is it time for a change ?

Ive written something on double democratic communism if you`d like to have a read

EDIT (Moderator): Link Removed

Re: The US Should Provide Democratic Ideals...
No, they shouldn't.

Democracy works in the US because of a unique history and ideology that developed in it starting with its original founding; the themes and beliefs and social factors that go back all those hundreds of years. Other countries have different histories, and so different types of governments will work better with them. Not to say that the ones they have are all that effective, but the idea that democracy will work the same way for everyone is somewhat flawed.

Politically, I think the US should stay out of everyone else's business, and take care of its own problems rather than trying to fix those in other countries.... god knows there are enough problems here already without bringing places like Iraq and China into it. We should look after our own first.

Rufio, I agree entirely with you.

We are debating this in my school, only with a slightly different wording. "The U.S. has a moral obligation to promote democratic ideals to other nations" It would be too easy to assume the negative position and state that who are the u.s. to superimpose our ideals on other countries if we are not a model democratic state, or that the U.S. can't have a moral obligation b/c its a body, not a people and morality is rooted in religion and there is a distinct separation of church and state or to to even propose that we are not the worlds baby sitter. Instead, i will simply say that there is no one way to promote an ideal. Invasion is not proposed in the resolution but mearly promoting which could be fliers or propaganda w/o the negative conotation. One could even say the U.S. would be selfish to withhold the one secret we have that other nations don't which dont have the ideals of democracy.

That's a good turn to take I think - be sure to point out that most of these countries have been around a lot longer than the US, and if democracy would have worked for them I'm sure they would have "discovered" it by now.

democratic ideals
We're also debating this topic at school. I like the idea that other countries have been around longer than the US and if democracy would work for them they would have tried it by now. I also think that it is rather pushy of the US to involve themselves in every other countries business, even if what happens in the world involves us. Think about it though. England is not a fully democratic country and yet they are a superpower of the world. Sweden is a socialist country and they don't have more problems with people against the government than we do. Many countries aren't democratic and yet they are flourishing. Democracy is not the only functioning government in the world. Anyway, every government has its problems and poor leaders, even the US. However I do think that democratic communism goes a little too far.

I think that the U.S. should model democracy. However, we often model externally instead of improving our version of democracy by working on it internally.

However, isolationism like Rufio is advocating allowed Germany to spread so much more quickly than they could have twice in the last one hundred years.

I think we should seek to repair our countries government as well as help others that are seeking to to set up thier own democracies.

TTF

Just a quick reply -- huge mistake in my resolution. I double-checked with our school's forensics team, apparently the resolution is as follows -

Resolved: The United States should promote democratic ideals to other nations.

I like Churchill's quote on this one. (Paraphrasing) 'Democracy is the worst form of government on the planet - except every other form of government.'

I think that American and the world realized that less freedom for its constituants is worse. The world believes that Democracy is a more free form of government than say Oligarchy or Dictatorship (as history has played out) so - if it is attempting to help others - it whoulc promote democracy.

The real question here, is if governments should promote what they believe is true. If helping others makes a good government, then every government, including America, should promote the truth.

I don't think governments like Dictatorships can be 'promoted' as much as others are subjected. Hitler did not promote his dictatorship outside of Germany - he militaristically subjected others to his dictatorship.

TTF

Sheesh...

Sorry...

Sorry about the double post.

TTF

if the United States as an 'entity' had any glimmer of a clue to what 'democracy' was, then, perhaps, a statement to that effect might be relevant.
[However, 'democracy' does not involve imposing your 'belief in the freedom of all", on others, by force, whether they wish to be a democratic society or not!]

if the United States as an 'entity' had any glimmer of a clue to what 'democracy' was, then, perhaps, a statement to that effect might be relevant.
However, 'democracy' does not involve imposing your 'belief in the freedom of all", on others, by force, whether they wish to be a democratic society or not!

[get rid of Bush, and we'll talk!]

BoGoWo:

Working on the Bush thing. Just because a portion of our govenrment system has attempted to push itself around does not mean that we are not a decent democracy.

I mean look at the nation building of the British in the last century - I don't think you would say that they have no clue about a democracy.

I definitly think we have a long way to go to improve our government - but 'no clue' - that is like saying that because Canada has a medical system that is flawed in some ways - that is has No Clue how to run a medical system.

Get rid of the absurd blanket statments and we will talk.

TTF

TTF: I understand where you're coming from, but does the US have a right to tell a country what to think and that they have to become a democracy. I don't think that the US has a right to change the governments in the world because of what they believe.

And I never said that - Lord knows I believe that is not true. The question - as restated - was should they promote it - and I am answering that question.

I hate the fact that my brothers (I was in the Marines) are being used as an instrument of stupidity in Iraq. I hate that they are dying because of an insurgency that was not planned for - and that they have to fight without body armor and even bullets for training - because that was not planned for either.

I think the hacks in the current administration would never fight this war - have never fought in wars and talk about firm resolve as if it is the cure for thier own stupidity.

But that, like your inference was a digression from the question - should the U.S. promote it. Ofcourse they should. Should the Japenese promote thie work ethic? Should the German's promote the way they created efficiency in WW II? Should the Islamics promote the way they submit to thier God? Should the Indian's promote thier tenacity? Ofcourse, it is thier strengths (among others) and that is what they do well and right.

The genius of America is the PHILOSOPHERS that founded it - that should be promoted for its strengths.

TTF

I agree that democracy is one of America's strengths, but does that mean that we need to foist our ideas on another country, for which democracy may not be the best idea. Is democracy the best idea for every country in terms of a government?