Dear United States... I'm judging you.

I'm okay. I've gotten pissier about poor paving. I've spent a lot of years about paving in my working life. If I had the the balls, I'd take over all those city departments.










ca;of;

eh!

No, thanks

Fine. From now on I'll tiptoe around all you sensitive Americans.
You are all beyond reproach and the rest of us foreigners have no business saying anything about you. Regardless of the message you have sent us.
There will be no more criticism of American racists, or misogynists, or trump fans or anything else on this topic.
America the beautiful, nothing else will do.

I'm Canadian too, Ceili. I've been studying and writing about US politics for three decades, much of that commentary has been critical.

But it is your tone here that grates, not criticism. Is that not clear to you?

Oh, I'm clear on that.
My tone only matches my anger at what I've witnessed over the past two years. I see the rise of the 'right' everywhere, and it's not right. It's hate. It's now legitimized here and everywhere.
How should I respond?

Something more tempered, I'd suggest. And that's not simply a view to the overall tone of this site or any other political discussion group, though I think that's important.

There is a lot of cognitive science research that tells us how people respond to strident political assertions which are intended to convince another with different views. Rather than convincing the other, we only solidify their stance and opinions and make them more extreme.

I understand your anger. Most of us feel it too (along with some degree of terror). But obstreperously insisting on X only makes things worse. This might seem counter-intuitive but the research is clear and consistent. Drew Westen's The Political Brain is a great book on this stuff.

I would suggest that most of my posts have been rather tempered. I generally follow the example you have given, however this time, I decided to use the same tact and language that got a monster elected. But what's good for the gander isn't great for the goose, eh? I confess, I'm confused.
Why is it alright for Trump to say this stuff and I can't? I was lead to believe this was the new normal. Civility is dead. PC is dead.
I thought it was ok to come out and spread lies. Nobody wants to hear the truth, unless it's their truth.
That all being said, I understand what you're saying. Normally I steer clear of these interactions because you can't change a person's mind or attitude. I admit, that wasn't my goal.

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Origins: On 5 June 1973, Canadian radio commentator Gordon Sinclair decided he'd had enough of the stream of criticism and negative press recently directed at the United States of America. When he arrived at radio station CFRB in Toronto that morning, he spent twenty minutes dashing off a two-page editorial defending the USA against its carping critics which he then delivered in a defiant, indignant tone during his "Let's Be Personal" spot at 11:45 AM that day.

"None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stm

"UK settles WWII debts to allies"


Britain will settle its World War II debts to the US and Canada when it pays two final instalments before the close of 2006, the Treasury has said.
The payments of $83.25m (£42.5m) to the US and US$22.7m (£11.6m) to Canada are the last of 50 instalments since 1950.

The amount paid back is nearly double that loaned in 1945 and 1946. "This week we finally honour in full our commitments to the US and Canada for the support they gave us 60 years ago," said Treasury Minister Ed Balls.

"It was vital support which helped Britain defeat Nazi Germany and secure peace and prosperity in the post-war period. We honour our commitments to them now as they honoured their commitments to us all those years ago," he added.

The last payments will be made on Friday, the final working day of the year.

Deferred

Under the lend-lease programme, which began in March 1941, the then neutral US could provide countries fighting Adolf Hitler with war material.

The US joined the war soon after - in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbour - and the programme ended in 1945.

Equipment left over in Britain at the end of hostilities and still needed had to be paid for.

The US loaned $4.33bn (£2.2bn) to Britain in 1945, while Canada loaned US$1.19 bn (£607m) in 1946, at a rate of 2% annual interest.

Upon the final payments, the UK will have paid back a total of $7.5bn (£3.8bn) to the US and US$2 bn (£1bn) to Canada.

Despite the favourable rates there were six years in which Britain deferred payment because of economic or political crises.

There are still World War I debts owed to and by Britain. Since a moratorium on all debts from that conflict was agreed at the height of the Great Depression, no repayments have been made to or received from other nations since 1934.

I think the best reason we choose not to duplicate his sort of style and content is so that we don't become like him and add to the pool of bitterness. But I hear what you're saying about this being unusual for you.

There is no logic in using the same tactics of those whom you are complaining about. You cant on one hand argue that someone is racist and turn around and make a racist comment. That is calling the kettle black mentality. You are nothing more than the person you are complaining about.

If you think guns are bad you cant then go around shooting gun supporters as a means to justify your hatred of guns. Its hypocritical.

You cant become the monster you are attempting to call out as a monster. You become no better off than them. If you want to be a super hero you cant act like a villian. Good has to play by rules. Break those rules you are no longer a force for good.

Your arguements just become contradictions.

I'm pretty much over tempering of tone here.

I think it's better to see honest commentary/opinions if facts aren't on offer. I think that sly/witty/cute insults are no better than coarse/direct ones.

I think what Ceili has done with this thread has been useful and enlightening.

___

That being said, I've thumbed down pretty much all politics threads at A2k (I'm still working on that project), and thumb down posts that contain opinion/insults instead of facts. That includes some of my own old posts. My political posting has moved to a board that removes all posts containing insults/non-factual commentary.

Poor old Gordon Sinclair.

May he RIP.

He'd have hated the last 30 years. And that's saying a lot for the curmudgeon he was.

I think there's some previously unrecognized connection between curmudgeonism and bow ties.

Not even remotely possible. I speak with authority since I have never willingly worn a bow tie (worn with a tux at high school graduation and once in about the first week of first grade) and I don't particularly care for bow tie pasta.

Fair enough. Perhaps my thesis was a little too robust.

I don't know if I've ever mentioned it but you have always reminded me of the lead character in my unfinished screenplay, "And Then Pollyanna Moved to New Jersey"

To Joisey? Yipes!

I can see New Jersey from the roof-I prefer it that way.

Where are you?

New York City, Greenwich Village.

(born at New York Hospital, began life on East 20th)