0
   

The Impossible Question?

 
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 12:59 pm
@saw038,
saw038 wrote:

No, I like it! That is philosophical food for thought. Thank you.


Fine, you like it, but it seems no one else is particularly impressed.

You would engage more people in a real conversation if you didn't limit your communication to what is only interesting to you.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:00 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

The analogy can be extended infinitely. The counterpoint to which, is "maybe you are nothing at all".

That isn't an answer, just more navel gazing.


Exactly.

So, maybe we are nothing at all.

Pretty much all there is to say.

Next case.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:03 pm
All of this thing called life may be a dream. The dream which is taking part in the thing called a brain in the head of another. If they cease dreaming, then you cease being, butterfly or not.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:19 pm
@saw038,
saw038 wrote:
No, I like it! That is philosophical food for thought. Thank you.

You should read the final chapter of Mark Twain's "The Mysterious Stranger", you will love it Wink
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:21 pm
@chai2,
I said I liked it because they actually gave back something with philosophical substances as opposed to callously disregarding it as if you already know everything about the nature of dreams and consciousness.
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:22 pm
@rosborne979,
Thanks! I'll have to check it out:)
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:24 pm
@chai2,
I've never been a big fan of philosophy. I feel that in its ultimate form it is sort of like meditation, except that instead of trying to clear your mind of everything, you instead try to focus on one single thought, which is circular, and you run it around in your head endlessly. Like, "I'm absolutely certain that I can never be certain of anything at all"... over and over and over again.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:27 pm
@saw038,
saw038 wrote:

Thanks! I'll have to check it out:)

It's available online...
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3186/3186-h/3186-h.htm#link2HCH0011
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 01:52 pm
@rosborne979,
That is even better! Saves me from buying the book.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 02:53 pm
@saw038,
saw038 wrote:

I said I liked it because they actually gave back something with philosophical substances as opposed to callously disregarding it as if you already know everything about the nature of dreams and consciousness.



What does it matter if you think I'm callous or not if I'm just a butterfly having a dream? Indeed, why would you bother to communicate that thought you me? Is it because you think dreams follow their own path, so you can't be held accountable for your thoughts and actions?

Why would what anyone communicates to you have any effect at all?

Unless of course this is reality, and your feelings have been bruised.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 02:58 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

I've never been a big fan of philosophy.


Exactly.

It's like people have these revelations that are in fact hackneyed and unoriginal. Since it's the first time they have heard or thought about it, there's this need or urgency to share this with all and sundry, then are upset when the response is "so?"

I feel meditation is different because it's all within you, and you can experience whatever comes along, and knowing it's an individual experience.
0 Replies
 
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 03:05 pm
@chai2,
It's interesting because I have also felt emotions in dreams. I have felt terrified before and thought with absolute certainty that it was real.

I have extremely vivid dreams and that is why I thought this quote was interesting and topic of discussion because we spend 1/3 of our lives asleep and dreams are still a very misunderstood topic.

I think it provides a window into our idea of reality and consciousness. Because in my dreams, I feel that what is going on is just as real as this conversation we are having right now.

My feelings are not 'bruised' as I do not really respect your comments since they have not offered me anything in relation to my forum's topic.

Moreover, I was just responding to your accusation that somehow the fact that I said 'I liked' someone's comment was a negative thing.
chai2
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 03:23 pm
@saw038,
But if this is just a dream, what does it matter?

Why would you bother to tell me of your disrespect or tell me I'm making accusations, unless it's that you feel you don't need to be accountable for any of it, as it is just a dream.

I didn't say a word about having emotions while having dreams. Everyone knows people have emotions during them. Again, nothing new there.

So, you have vivid dreams, and so you felt the need to pose it as a philosophical question?
Why not investigate it as a brain function which is neurological and phychological, which is much more complex and interesting.

Here, take a look at this link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2814941/<br />


saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 03:37 pm
@chai2,
Now you have done it! You have provided me with information that I can now think upon!

These are my four most interesting takeaways from my initial read.

"Perhaps the most striking feature of conscious experiences in sleep is how altogether similar the inner world of dreams is to the real world of wakefulness. Indeed, at times the dreamer may be uncertain whether he is awake or asleep."

"Dreams also reflect our interests and personality, just like mental activity during wakefulness. Formal content analysis has revealed that mood, imaginativeness, individuals of interest, and predominant concerns are correlated between our waking and dreaming selves."

"We are generally surprised on awakening from a dream (“it was only a dream”) mainly because we didn’t consciously will that we would dream it. In fact, during dreaming there is a prominent reduction of voluntary control of action and thought. We cannot pursue goals, and have no control over the dream’s content."

"Some dreams are characterized by a high degree of emotional involvement, including joy, surprise, anger, fear, and anxiety[34–36]. Interestingly, sadness, guilt, and depressed affect are rare[11], possibly due to reduced self-reflection."

"In summary, dream consciousness is remarkably similar to waking consciousness, though there are several intriguing differences. These include reduced attention and voluntary control, lack in self-awareness, altered reflective thought, occasional hyperemotionality, and impaired memory."
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 06:19 pm
I was wondering when I was going to finally challenge you to think rather than rely on unoriginal, beaten dead horses.

I would like to personally thank Mrs. O'Neill, my 5th grade teacher.
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 06:23 pm
@chai2,
But if it had been an "unoriginal, beaten dead horses," it wouldn't have produced new life in the form of knowledge. My inquiry (quote from Chuang Tzu) led to you responding and your disagreeing with me led you to provide a fascinating article I don't believe I could have found on my own.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 07:39 pm
@saw038,
It wasn't a dead horse when Chaung Tzu said it before at least 295 BC.

This is 2016.

I find it hard to believe that you could not have found the link I provided, and many more, from a simple Google search. All I did was type in "dreams and the brain" Took me all of 30 seconds to type, click on the link, quickly look at it and and copy and paste the link.

Seriously? You couldn't have figured that out, or something similar?

How do you think I just found out Tzu lived over 2000 years ago?

Perhaps this is why you're so interested in dreams, and why you think they're such a big mystery, and so deep and meaningful.

Maybe I thanked Mrs. McNeill prematurely. I thought you had perhaps discovered there was a lot of information out there, all a couple of clicks away.

I'm nearing the age of ancient, and if I could do it, what's going on with you?






saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 07:58 pm
@chai2,
And yet, the end result was the same. Only you did my research for me and I have had a delightful conversation defending my point with you and with others - many people on this forum greatly contributed and added to my philosophical studies; so, it was very successful in my eyes.

I love ancient philosophers, especially how their questions can still resonate today.

I do not understand the animosity you have towards for merely posting a quote which I found interesting from a book on paradoxes I was reading.

If me posting a quote with a question on an internet forum simply to get people's input makes you this upset, then I truly don't understand, as well as, if you thought it was so stupid why you would have commented to begin with and continue to comment.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 08:00 pm
@saw038,
Might interest you or others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_a_Dream
saw038
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2016 08:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Very interesting! Hinduism is the most ancient religion and it says, "The concept of life as a dream is an ancient one found in Hinduism and Platonism." I did not know that. I find it interesting that a philosophical question wrestled with by the ancients is still one that is philosophically relevant today.
0 Replies
 
 

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