Is Iraq Viet Nam redux?

I would have you read Iraqi bloggers; Iranian bloggers; and other non main stream media sources in the Middle East.
Read soldier's accounts of how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read other contractors; social workers; assistance groups; etc. on how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read the words of the Iraqis who take the time to write about these things.
If you are interested, I will list all the links I have.
If you could care less, I won't bother.
But, it is extremely useful to take the common pulse of people rather than relying on what makes interesting "news."

Moishe3rd wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Moishe3rd wrote:

I would humbly suggest that the main point of Iraq, today, now, is that the vast majority of Iraqis do indeed support the US and wish to live in a peaceful, democratic Iraq.

What...besides the kind of wishful thinking that caused certain people to suppose we would be met with people strewing flowers in the streets before us...causes you to humbly suggest this?


I see damn near no indication of it whatsoever...and if forced to guess on it, I'd guess that a HUGE MAJORITY of Iraqis think we are scum and would gladly be rid of us if they were not afraid of the chaos that would ensue in our absence...a chaos that would not be a problem if we had not attacked.

I would have you read Iraqi bloggers; Iranian bloggers; and other non main stream media sources in the Middle East.
Read soldier's accounts of how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read other contractors; social workers; assistance groups; etc. on how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read the words of the Iraqis who take the time to write about these things.
If you are interested, I will list all the links I have.
If you could care less, I won't bother.
But, it is extremely useful to take the common pulse of people rather than relying on what makes interesting "news."

Moise...c'mon.

I'm surprised you didn't also point to the words of George Bush or Colin Powel or the puppets the United States have imposed as "leaders" of the Iraqi government.

Yes...you will find opinion on both sides of the issue.

But consider this: If you talked to the Iraqi man or woman on the street while Saddam was still in power...you would have gotten universal agreement that things were just peachy keen in Iraq...and that Saddam was a saint.

Unfortunately, we'll see how much the Americans are loved when they start to withdraw.

Or are you expecting more flower petals strewn in their path as they march out?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Moishe3rd wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Moishe3rd wrote:

I would humbly suggest that the main point of Iraq, today, now, is that the vast majority of Iraqis do indeed support the US and wish to live in a peaceful, democratic Iraq.

What...besides the kind of wishful thinking that caused certain people to suppose we would be met with people strewing flowers in the streets before us...causes you to humbly suggest this?


I see damn near no indication of it whatsoever...and if forced to guess on it, I'd guess that a HUGE MAJORITY of Iraqis think we are scum and would gladly be rid of us if they were not afraid of the chaos that would ensue in our absence...a chaos that would not be a problem if we had not attacked.

I would have you read Iraqi bloggers; Iranian bloggers; and other non main stream media sources in the Middle East.
Read soldier's accounts of how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read other contractors; social workers; assistance groups; etc. on how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read the words of the Iraqis who take the time to write about these things.
If you are interested, I will list all the links I have.
If you could care less, I won't bother.
But, it is extremely useful to take the common pulse of people rather than relying on what makes interesting "news."

Moise...c'mon.

I'm surprised you didn't also point to the words of George Bush or Colin Powel or the puppets the United States have imposed as "leaders" of the Iraqi government.

Yes...you will find opinion on both sides of the issue.

But consider this: If you talked to the Iraqi man or woman on the street while Saddam was still in power...you would have gotten universal agreement that things were just peachy keen in Iraq...and that Saddam was a saint.

Unfortunately, we'll see how much the Americans are loved when they start to withdraw.

Or are you expecting more flower petals strewn in their path as they march out?

Your analogy is bizarre.
The Iraqi man in the street was tortured, raped and killed if he spoke out against Saddam Hussein.
The Iraqi man in the street today is free to murder US soldiers or encourage them and work for them.
The Iraqi blogger is anonymous and has no fear of reprisal or reward from anyone.

Again, I would suggest you attempt to examine other sources than the extremely biased by both the fear of reprisal and the hope of reward, main stream media...

Moishe3rd wrote:

I would have you read Iraqi bloggers; Iranian bloggers; and other non main stream media sources in the Middle East.
Read soldier's accounts of how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read other contractors; social workers; assistance groups; etc. on how they are treated by Iraqis.
Read the words of the Iraqis who take the time to write about these things.
If you are interested, I will list all the links I have.
If you could care less, I won't bother.
But, it is extremely useful to take the common pulse of people rather than relying on what makes interesting "news."

Exactly Moishe,

During the Vietnam war we were treated to the same decidedly positive spin of the war..

Soldiers accounts of being welcomed by Vietnamese were published. There were stories of developement projects, and pictures of GI's with vietnamese children.

These positive reassuring views in the midst of violence, is is another part of the Vietnam war that is being repeated in a way that is almost eerie.

Moishe

I agree it is bizarre the parallels are that good.

In Vietnam, you don't think that people were killed for speaking out against the Viet Cong? You don't think that Viet Cong targeted US soldiers or those who worked for them? You don't think that those Vietnamese citizens who supported the US (and there were plenty) wouldn't send messages that praised the US troops?

Propaganda hasn't changed much. People who supported the war in Vietnam did everything they could to paint the situation in the conflict as positive as possible, even while people were dying.

That's was the game in Vietnam, paint as rosy a picture as possible.

The real irony is you and I. We are having the exact same argument that we would have been having 35 years ago.

You would have been pointing out the joy of the Vietnamese who supported the US and the development work, and showing pictures of GI's holding Vietnamese children.

I would have been pointing out the increasing death toll on both sides, showing published reports of alleged war crimes commited by US troops, and warning of the gathering strength of the insurgents (oops I meant Viet Cong).

You are right to say it's bizzare. You and I are basically where we would have been in 1967.