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Why did we stop inventing gods?

 
 
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 09:46 am
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 931 • Replies: 18

 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:21 am
Schadenfreude
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:17 am
@Greatest I am,
Great, no offense whatever but (a) What brings you to a2k, and (2) How long did that thoughtful op take you to compose (and edit)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:23 am
@Greatest I am,
At least the Buddhist god was actually a living person. It's about improving the self, and to reach enlightenment. No hokus pokus.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:29 am
@Greatest I am,
We haven't stopped inventing religions at all. We have

- Mormonism (1820s)
- Moonies (1954)
- Scientology (1954)
- Wikka (1920s)

There are always people who start new faiths. Most of them are considered crazy at the time. Some of them catch on.


CVeigh
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2016 01:18 pm
@Greatest I am,
Virtually all of current science disagrees with you.

Certainly anthropology and developmental psychology have discredited your view entirely

ANTHROPOLOGY
In the Beginning God: A Fresh Look at the Case for Original Monotheism
by Winfried Corduan
Winfried Corduan’s In the Beginning God is largely an effort to rehabilitate the reputation and theory of Catholic linguist Wilhelm Schmidt, whose 12-volume Der Ursprung der Gottesidee (1912-54) argued that monotheism was the original form of religious belief.

What you should know about In the Beginning God is that the book is (a) based on serious and systematic scholarship; (b) walks you through the historical debate over High Gods step by step; (c) explains most of the key issues simply, though there are a few difficult stretches; (d) is often witty, even acerbic, in dialoguing with scholars whom Corduan thinks haven't done their homework, or fail to think clearly. And that is just about everybody in classical anthropology -- Tylor, Muller, Eliade, Otto, Durkheim, Radin, even Andrew Lang a few times, more gently -- except Corduan's hero, Wilhelm Schmidt.


DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY
Developmental psychologists have provided evidence that children are naturally tuned to believe in gods of one sort or another.

• Children tend to see natural objects as designed or purposeful in ways that go beyond what their parents teach, as Deborah Kelemen has demonstrated. Rivers exist so that we can go fishing on them, and birds are here to look pretty.

• Children doubt that impersonal processes can create order or purpose. Studies with children show that they expect that someone not something is behind natural order. No wonder that Margaret Evans found that children younger than 10 favoured creationist accounts of the origins of animals over evolutionary accounts even when their parents and teachers endorsed evolution. Authorities' testimony didn't carry enough weight to over-ride a natural tendency.

• Children know humans are not behind the order so the idea of a creating god (or gods) makes sense to them. Children just need adults to specify which one.

• Experimental evidence, including cross-cultural studies, suggests that three-year-olds attribute super, god-like qualities to lots of different beings. Super-power, super-knowledge and super-perception seem to be default assumptions. Children then have to learn that mother is fallible, and dad is not all powerful, and that people will die. So children may be particularly receptive to the idea of a super creator-god. It fits their predilections.

• Recent research by Paul Bloom, Jesse Bering, and Emma Cohen suggests that children may also be predisposed to believe in a soul that persists beyond death.
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2016 02:44 pm
with out watching the link you provided.. and with out reading anything prior on here any where else..

my answer is that we have NOT stopped inventing gods entirely. I believe it would be impossible to ever prove that statement right or wrong though with the number of people on this planet. So I will speak from the idea that we are discussing creation of new, popular religions like Hinduism, christianity etc which is what I think you mean. We are it seems, slowing the pace at which we blindly swallow religion though, and the recorded data of the people that can be reached to test this out seem to show a huge decline in religious beliefs. Since we as a race can now answer most of the questions that ended up being a portion of why religions may have been created in the first place, I dont believe people can just get away with it anymore. I think it will be a while before we drop all of that all together however as parts of some of the more popular religions ARE still 'inventing' people. Ill use Catholics' patron saints for an example of what I mean.. Saints are not "gods", but they are a relevant and simple comparison for my point.

There is now a saint for the internet . Saint Isidore of Seville. The internet only started to become a household common thing in the late 80s' to early 90s so there is a simple example of an 'invention'.. there is a saint for cars, a saint for certain pieces of technology..etc. There are numerous saints that were 'discovered' and named with in the last 50 years. So no, we have not stopped inventing different types of "gods" yet, but the brakes are on for inventing, claiming and outlining new religions that's for sure, and maybe thats where there needs to be a specification in the opening question. Religion was a huge blanket for the unknown, and the gods were individuals responsible for portions of the earth, human life and select aspects of things we (as humans) knew to happen . We no longer have so many unanswered questions, so the need for it is rapidly dissipating. With the rise of information, finding a way to validate a new religion would be near impossible i bet

Most countries... or most of the more developed areas I will say (generally speaking), now have access to proven information that would normally have been explained using a god or a named otherworldly 'thing'. Sheesh, if you only go back 500 years ago, Im positive that a significant portion of humans believed that a god governed how the earth behaved in almost every aspect. In fact the weather was a huge anchor for validating most of the popular , if not ALL of the religions. The human body, its sicknesses, capabilities, dysfunctions and especially psychiatric disorders were more factors that firmly held a religion in place for most people. We now understand the human body, so its behaviors are no longer relevant in that regard. Psychiatric disorders which we now identify and treat, used to be seen as possessions, or a voice from a god, or maybe even a curse.. yadda yadda yadda, you see where I am going with this. Given this access to information, and the fact that we can replicate most of the proven results ourselves with our own hands is a big key as to why gods and religions are not created anymore in the way you are hinting at. We are actually going the opposite way as the need for gods and the belief IN a god is becoming more and more unnecessary, and humans are now really understanding that the concept of a god is truly a human invention.

The last need religion serves is control , and that kind of control.. again, is no longer necessary or even desirable. A religion is presented as an outline for which people should decide to live according to whom ever wrote the book, script, or commandments for said religion and you cant get away with that behavior anymore. That type of control is solely a human desire. We have created governments to implement control to supposedly maintain peace..so..religion just does not make any sense for humans anymore. In fact the belief in a god or religious system and its ideals are moving further down the ladder of steps of desirable pieces of education and slipping into the near unwanted portion of the human consciousness like an educational evolution, except now it is on speed.

We as humans used the god idea to throw anything misunderstood under an umbrella of an answer just TO have an answer... and we no longer need to anymore.

We stopped inventing gods because.... google.. i guess. lol
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2016 03:54 pm
@shewolfnm,
She, I like your profile, something most of us don't even bother with. Clever and true

Incidentally I wonder if you'd mind revealing (1) what drew you to a2k and (2) how long did posting #...919 take to compose
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2016 03:59 pm
@dalehileman,
I dont remember..
And over a decade Smile
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

At least the Buddhist god was actually a living person. It's about improving the self, and to reach enlightenment. No hokus pokus.


You see 20/20

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:07 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

We haven't stopped inventing religions at all. We have

- Mormonism (1820s)
- Moonies (1954)
- Scientology (1954)
- Wikka (1920s)

There are always people who start new faiths. Most of them are considered crazy at the time. Some of them catch on.





I agree but I was speaking more of a moral theology and not a rehashed old one.

1 deluded person would be considered crazy. 100 people share the same delusion and you have a religion.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:17 pm
@CVeigh,
CVeigh wrote:

Virtually all of current science disagrees with you.

Certainly anthropology and developmental psychology have discredited your view entirely

ANTHROPOLOGY
In the Beginning God: A Fresh Look at the Case for Original Monotheism
by Winfried Corduan
Winfried Corduan’s In the Beginning God is largely an effort to rehabilitate the reputation and theory of Catholic linguist Wilhelm Schmidt, whose 12-volume Der Ursprung der Gottesidee (1912-54) argued that monotheism was the original form of religious belief.

What you should know about In the Beginning God is that the book is (a) based on serious and systematic scholarship; (b) walks you through the historical debate over High Gods step by step; (c) explains most of the key issues simply, though there are a few difficult stretches; (d) is often witty, even acerbic, in dialoguing with scholars whom Corduan thinks haven't done their homework, or fail to think clearly. And that is just about everybody in classical anthropology -- Tylor, Muller, Eliade, Otto, Durkheim, Radin, even Andrew Lang a few times, more gently -- except Corduan's hero, Wilhelm Schmidt.


DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY
Developmental psychologists have provided evidence that children are naturally tuned to believe in gods of one sort or another.

• Children tend to see natural objects as designed or purposeful in ways that go beyond what their parents teach, as Deborah Kelemen has demonstrated. Rivers exist so that we can go fishing on them, and birds are here to look pretty.

• Children doubt that impersonal processes can create order or purpose. Studies with children show that they expect that someone not something is behind natural order. No wonder that Margaret Evans found that children younger than 10 favoured creationist accounts of the origins of animals over evolutionary accounts even when their parents and teachers endorsed evolution. Authorities' testimony didn't carry enough weight to over-ride a natural tendency.

• Children know humans are not behind the order so the idea of a creating god (or gods) makes sense to them. Children just need adults to specify which one.

• Experimental evidence, including cross-cultural studies, suggests that three-year-olds attribute super, god-like qualities to lots of different beings. Super-power, super-knowledge and super-perception seem to be default assumptions. Children then have to learn that mother is fallible, and dad is not all powerful, and that people will die. So children may be particularly receptive to the idea of a super creator-god. It fits their predilections.

• Recent research by Paul Bloom, Jesse Bering, and Emma Cohen suggests that children may also be predisposed to believe in a soul that persists beyond death.


I think my best answer here is Jung and Freud's Father Complex.

God is not required or desired by mankind if we go by the number of people who actually practice what they preach. The good parts that is.

They are sure good at doing the evil parts.

To all your miracle seeking I offer, Princess Alice.
Science is finding the cause us os creating Gods.

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=through-the-wormhole&episode=s03e10

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:21 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm

Well put, but I think you are giving mankind too much credit in terms of us not requiring Gods anymore.

True that belief is shrinking in the West but it is growing in China and other large countries.

Regards
DL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:33 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Well put, but I think you are giving mankind too much credit in terms of us not requiring Gods anymore.


I agree with you because my siblings are christians, and they have devoted their heart and soul into their religion. As I've said many times before, I am an atheist.

I had kidney failure, and was on dialysis. My kidneys are now working at about 36%, and no longer require dialysis, and my siblings credit god for it.

Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
Well put, but I think you are giving mankind too much credit in terms of us not requiring Gods anymore.


I agree with you because my siblings are christians, and they have devoted their heart and soul into their religion. As I've said many times before, I am an atheist.

I had kidney failure, and was on dialysis. My kidneys are now working at about 36%, and no longer require dialysis, and my siblings credit god for it.



Perhaps you should suggest if one of them get's ill to pray for a cure instead of going to a doctor.

Oh wait, please don't. If they are J W that might kill one of them.

Instead, just give them this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE

Regards
DL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 05:56 pm
@Greatest I am,
My brother is a doctor, and my sister is an RN.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 06:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

My brother is a doctor, and my sister is an RN.


Ouch.

They might still learn from that clip.

It is always a wonder to me how otherwise intelligent people will believe in a guy in the sky, especially when any half way intelligent reading of the bible shows an God who is not worthy of moral people.

Regards
DL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 07:01 pm
@Greatest I am,
It's not about intelligence. It's about the indoctrination one gets that is accepted as truth.
I call religion an accident of birth. I see that in my family. We used to be buddhist before the war. Our mother converted to christianity when we were in concentration camp during the war. All my siblings followed suit, but I didn't because it didn't make any sense to me.
My older brother is an attorney, my younger brother a doctor, and my sister is an RN. I've always been the yellow sheep of the family. I didn't follow the "crowd."
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's not about intelligence. It's about the indoctrination one gets that is accepted as truth.
I call religion an accident of birth. I see that in my family. We used to be buddhist before the war. Our mother converted to christianity when we were in concentration camp during the war. All my siblings followed suit, but I didn't because it didn't make any sense to me.
My older brother is an attorney, my younger brother a doctor, and my sister is an RN. I've always been the yellow sheep of the family. I didn't follow the "crowd."


Better a goat with a free mind than a sheep that does not use his.

Innovation equals progress.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
 

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