Jesus on love?

Well, sparky, my goodness. I remember you from my old Abuzz thread "Uneasy Lies the Head That Wears a Crown". Welcome to A2K!

There is no place in the New Testament that I know, that makes such a declaration of love in its "truest" sense between a man and a woman. Ask your girlfriend to point it out to you, but in the interim, ask yourself what led you to form a relationship with her initially.

Thanks for the reply. And I appreciate the advice. Certainly one could say that Christ is calling me through that relationship to Him. One could also take the psychological perspective that I am for some reason putting myself in a situation with a woman that I can't have. I've already been asking myself those questions and thinking about all of this, listening to God, my heart, etc.

So, I appreciate it, but I'm truly, at this point, interested in the theological question of love and Christ. Thanks.

Most of my bible texts come from compulsary bible readings in the public schools of the 40's and 50's. I seem to remember a text in which Jesus tells his followers that they must leave their families and follow him.

There is also the notion that you must accept Christ to be saved from sin. Therefore any relationship without Christ would be sinful.

Are you sure this woman doesn't come with incompatible baggage?

I think that's a question, in part, that I am trying to get at. What part is faith and what part is using faith to justify something else that's in her heart (or not in her heart). This is something we've discussed. But according to her, it comes down ultimately to her faith, her beliefs.

RUN...do not walk!

Not really a helpful response on its own.

sparky--

Fine to say, "Love me, love my God."

She's saying, "Love me, abandon your false God."

Is this what you want to do?

Perhaps the point of my question is being missed. I'm not looking for advice oin how to handle this relationship. We have already decided that it will not continue, case closed. I should have just said "ex-girlfriend" in the original post.

What I am looking for is a scriptural basis for this idea about love that is mentioned in the original post.

Well, Sparky. Here's a starter:

http://www.jesus-institute.org/jesus-parables-teachings/jesus-keymessages/jesus-loveoneanother.shtml

Then I suggest that you obtain a copy of the Bible, both old and new testament, especially one with a concordance, and proceed on your own.

Best wishes, my friend

Sparky,

At the risk of starting a war, I will suggest that you acquire a copy of a Catholic Bible. Difference is that there are more books in the Catholic Bible than most Protestant Bibles. Of course that may increase the divide between your girlfriend and yourself since many of the born again group find solace, comfort, and a place to leave their minds in other, more abridged versions such as the King James Version. That is not to say that the Catholic Bible is not abridged, it is. There are many arguments that at least eight of the original apostles wrote gospels, biographies of the man they knew as Jesus. I'm not aware of any Christian Bible which has more than four gospels in it. And you may find some striking differences between any Christian Old Testament, and your Jewish books, in name, number and translation.

On your question of where her quote is coming from, I've never seen it in writing, nor have I heard it with the usual attachment of chapter and verse numbers. I suspect it is something she is getting from her preacher or from her Sunday school teacher. I don't think it has any basis in the true sayings of Jesus or His disciples. Someone has already commented that it translates as Love me and my God and abandon yours. I suspect that such is the case. Incidently, I happen to believe that Jews and Christians, and Muslims, worship the same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We just have different rites of worship. After all if we weren't worshiping the same God how could we be telling jokes like:

The rabbi, the minister, and the priest all died the same day and went to their heavenly reward. The minister got a brand new Dodge to drive around, and since he hadn't been well off in life he thought he was doing very well. Then one day he happens to see the priest driving by in a big Ford. Later those two were standing on the corner and the minsiter says to the priest, "Well I guess you were right. Your's is the true religion." About that time the rabbi drives by in a really big, shiny Cadillac with all the chrome. The minister turns to the priest and says, "So how does he rate that car?" The priest replies, "Well Jesus was a Jew remember."

I will also echo previous advice. You will probably be better off with a life mate other than the young lady posing your current question. In my experience such folks tend to be very focused on their narrow beliefs and intolerant of those who do not slavishly parrot their party line. A party line that I think is acutally incompatible with the teachings of Jesus.

On the subject of love, the part I remember being attributed to Jesus is: "Love God with your whole mind, your whole heart, your whole soul. Love one another as I have loved you." Paul has a long list of what love is in one of his epistles, letters. You have probably heard it if you have ever gone to a Protestant wedding. "Love is kind, love is patient, ...."

Editorialy. I think the Jews have it easier. They only have the Ten Commandments to define their relationship to God and Man. As I learned them the first three are: Only worship one God, don't take His name in vain, and keep holy the Lord's day. (Can we agree not to quibble on translations for the moment? ) The next seven are honor your parents and a list of don'ts for getting along with fellow humans.

Christians have it harder. They have to give all they've got to God. In the spirit of the sports coach imploring the team to "Give it all you've got." Then Christians have to love their fellow humans as Jesus loved his disciples. He is quoted as calling them a nest of vipers. That's roughly equivalent to calling them a pack of rattlesnakes. Then he still kept trying to teach them how to get along with folks, and him. He showed by example that the poor, the blind, the lame, the sick, the sinful, and everyone else is to be treated with respect, courtesy, kindness and generally be nice to them. I can't speak for you, but I sure don't want to hold the door for someone, courtesy, who just yelled at me in the parking lot for getting to the good parking spot first, and I didn't see them. Yet that is what Jesus' message is to me. A lot harder than just not shooting them for shooting their mouth off.

So, you got a recommendation of what version of Christian Bible to buy, and at least one reason why; what my recollection of the wording of the book is; a recommendation to find another girl friend, and why; and what I take from the Bible on the subject of love. Also an old joke.

I think I, as a Roman Catholic, am in the correct religion, but I can't say you are in the wrong one. Both the Jews and the Muslims have a very strong argument against putting statues in their places of worship, idolotry. We RCs argue that we don't worship the statues, but the saints they represent, yet the argument is valid that praying to the saints for help could be said to be worshipping other gods. I think in many ways that the RC church has a severe cranial-rectal inversion problem on many issues, female priests, homosexuality, birth control, etc. But I think other religions have similar, and in some cases, worse problems. All probably becasue the religions are run by humans, and I haven't knowingly met the perfect human yet in the flesh.

Probably more information and discussion than you wanted, but I hope it helps,
Kelly

Marry her.

At some point...probably in the not to distant future...you will recall my post and rue that you did not heed it.

And you probably won't be able to recall any of these others.

I don't think that idea comes from scripture. All I could find was:

1 Corinthians 7
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

39A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

2 Corinthians 6
14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.

Sparky

Biblical love is called a "fruit of the spirit" and logically one must have received the spirit in order to bare it's fruit. When one "manifests" the spirit then the result is the fruit of the spirit.

Galatians 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,

Comment:

Hi all!

Nice to see the demise of Abuzz did not separate us all! Hey Frank!

Kelly, there are 613 commandments for Jews.

Sparky, you may want to check a Jewish source for a Jewish perspective. The "old testament" is not the only writing for Judaism. There is also the Oral Torah. A man and a woman are considered two halves of one whole, and when they come together they are completing each other. One is not complete without the other. Sex can at times be seen as a sacred act, bringing the two together to become one.

Outside of romantic love you may wish to read this:

http://www.jewfaq.org/brother.htm

Going by what Christianity says, Judaism can indeed look harsh. Going by what Judaism says about itself, it's a different story entirely. If you are not currently connected to anything, like a synagogue, that helps you sort out your Jewish identity, it can be rough having someone tell you that who you are is not good enough.

And if you are wondering about how well Christian Theology meshes with Judaism:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/mainpages/FAQ.html

A pardon to all faithfully married people but... modern marriage is a joke.

First the ritual permits that the two to be wed have bachelor parties and showers where strippers are hired and they party in wild abandon such that on the day of the wedding the hang over is so great that it seems like a nightmare.

Then they gather in a house of worship after drinking to excess, with flowers, and words are spoken for the most part by someone else... (priest or minister) there are brides maids and best men present, there is a wedding song, the father gives away the bride, rings are exchanged, legal documents, receptions, garter belts, more parties drinking, smash dishes, throw rice, drive off in a limo to the honeymoon, pay the marriage tax and the lawyers. Then your love is official!

Divorce is even more of a farce... there is the loss of possessions that were not even earned, pay the lawyers again, pay the government and be excommunicated from your faith. None of this is in the new or old testament of the Bible.

The ONLY mention of a marriage ritual in the Bible is a vague mention of a "canopy" in the old testament and a waiting period of a year... It is unknown how this canopy was used in the marriage ceremony and what it represented. I would think it is a covering "from above" to possibly represent that only God can bestow love upon two people.

It is strange to think that the government can sanctify love. To me this is a God given miracle and is not delved out by lawyers and certified by marriage licenses. It is a choice between two individuals, God and nothing else.

It does not certify that another human being is suddenly "owned" and that one may now be "controlled" respectively by one's spouse. It is a commitment of the heart that is volunteered out of love, personal commitment and conviction, not by a legally binding piece of paper. Love is a self motivated choice and not a mandate by others.

Time is the true test of love. True love is never forced but is willingly free to flourish and grow.

Remember Jesus loves you but everyone else thinks your a jerk!

Algis

I don't know who you are talking to but... back at you. I have Christian friends and even more non Christian friends. I am very happy with my life. That just goes to show that Christians can be not only loved by Jesus buy also be popular. You can have your opinion but it is just that, an opinion. Are you saying Jesus loves God haters?