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The Value of Philosophy

 
 
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 08:52 pm
Philosophy stands as the discipline of all things human and as the means by which man searches for meaning and understanding in a universe denying him both.
As such it is a curious amalgamation of scientific curiosity and artistic expression that attempts to uncover, indirectly, things that can never possibly be made aware of in a direct conscious manner to the human senses or that can be fully expressed, through words and language, to the human mind.
Science has been thought, in this ?'scientific age', as the forerunner of all human progress and the primary tool of human exploration. It has served man well, thus far, and has saved human kind from the overindulgence in and surrender to mythological and religious pacifiers that threaten to limit mankind to the confines of his own prejudices, self-interests and fears.
But science itself is beginning to reach the limits of its effectiveness, where its probing eye, is itself, affecting the results of what is being observed and is making the scientific ?'dream' of absolute objectivity, an improbability, at best, and a complete illusion, at worst.
This inter-relation of object and subject, described by Schopenhauer, has uncovered some uncomfortable realities about the extent of human knowledge and places doubt about the very likelihood of knowledge itself, as a whole; a subject tackled by epistemology in the philosophical discipline.
Science is like trying to shed light in a dark room that will be changed by the very light you cast. One can never be sure that, in the dark, things remain the same or that the light used is powerful or precise enough to make everything visible.

Art also faces its own restrictions in its endeavour to describe transcendental ?'truths' by utilizing human imagination to shape sensual interpretations into metaphorical symbols.
Here feeling, instinct and imagination is unleashed in the place of critical thought, reason and empiricism and the underlying, unseen reality or the transcending ?'truth' of existence is expressed through color, shape, tone and all forms of sensual interpretations.
But art cannot give direction, purpose or create life strategies and rules by which a human being can live or find power in; it can insinuate and guess, it can paint approximations and try to achieve precision through indirect means but it remains restricted to individual limitations of interpretation and understanding and is seeped in an allegory that leaves much room for misunderstanding and lacks the precision to quench the minds thirst for answers.
Art is like trying to describe a dark room by walking through it with the lights closed and feeling the movement of your body through the objects in it, the effect of the air upon you and the overall sensation you receive and then mimicking it to the best of your abilities for all to see.

Philosophy bridges these two attitudes of exploration by combining the scientific desire to cast light on everything and the artistic disposition of gaining insight through instinct and emotional comprehension.
Gustave Flaubert says on this matter: "As a rule the philosopher is a kind of mongrel being a cross between scientist and poet, envious of both."

One may even venture to claim that philosophy is the source of both science and art and is related to both as a tree, rooted in the human mind, is related to its branches, breathing and gathering sunlight on its behalf.

But even philosophy has fallen on some hard times and is now faced with the spectre of nihilism and the denial of life itself. Centuries of human philosophical thought has guided us to the brink of human desperation and the precipice of nothingness. This mental exploration of ?'all things' has uncovered painful facets of mans place in the universe, his purpose, or lack of, and his relation to sensual information gained through imperfect instruments and forever entrenched in subjectivity and speculation.

What therefore is the value of philosophy?
Many take philosophy as this pool of subjects by which they show-off their mental abilities or indulge their need for deeper conversation to pacify their boredom and occupy their minds with mental puzzles that can never be answered adequately.
There are those that take philosophy to be the mere reassessing of previous opinions in this unending interpretation and reinterpretation of what others have thought or believed.
They feel they are ?'philosophical' or ?'intellectual' just because they can mention the multiple schools of philosophical thought, quote from previous works and take a position on abstract ideas formulated by previous minds.
Here is the very essence of what it means to me a sophist.
A mind that has not suffered or struggled for its opinions feels a distance, a cold-hearted indifference towards their validity and so expresses them as if reciting a poem he hasn't written and therefore not fully comprehended. For him a philosophy is not part of him but only something he knows and so can easily replace with another. His only attachment to it is in regards to his ego and not wanting to prove his judgment wrong for ever having believed in it.
Beliefs gained by reading books or by adopting another's viewpoint without personal effort and analysis of the world directly are truly worthless and utterly without consequence on any individual life.
A philosophy that isn't ?'lived' is only a candy suckled on by those wanting to believe they are in that instant thinkingÂ…deeply.
A sophist participates in philosophical discourse knowing beforehand that no answer will be given, no conclusion reached and the inevitable result will be a smile, a handshake and an agreement to disagree. He will then leave the debate table non-the-better and non-the-worst. No change, no gain, no difference will have been made and this suits the sophist, just fine.
This Christian attitude of wanting to equate all opinions and respect all viewpoints so as to not insult or hurt anybody for holding on to the most ridiculous belief, is a direct result of the current psychology of equalitarianism and compassion that negates all possibility of superior and inferior opinions and participates in debate only when no clear victor is to be crowned and no belief will be totally discredited.
A sophist will only include himself in a conversation when he does not feel threatened by exposure and so prefers to discuss matters that can never possibly lead to a result and that have no personal ramifications.

But philosophy is meaningless if only this attitude is adopted and no real-life consequences are looked for.
Philosophy is not only about a recitation of dead ideas and dead peoples opinions in an endless regurgitation of ?'what was meant' or ?'what was said'; it is a battle between two, or more, personal viewpoints and the destruction or alteration of the weaker one for the purpose of achieving a higher ?'truth' or a more worthy state of mind.
The world of ideas is subject to the same rules of physical existence and evolutionary methods of progress.
Philosophy is political in that it must lead to real-life results and the formulation of life strategies for the attainment of goals in a given environment.
Philosophy is artistic, in that it uses metaphor and allegory to describe what is indescribable and speaks to the imagination where reason is incapable to comprehend.
Philosophy is scientific, in that it uses sensual phenomena to deduce and induce bigger phenomena and empiricism to find arguments for or against interpretations.

What is the value of something that will not have a consequence upon our being and leads to no practical result?
A philosopher opens his window, his eyes and his mind to the world and only uses past opinions as inspirations and guidance tools to his own, personal explorations. Books and philosophical treatises are resource material not goals, in themselves.
It is preferable to have an incomplete and weaker opinion that was gained through personal effort, than to adopt more perfect and complete ideas in which you had no participation in and the only work done was memorization.
As a result of this personal effort, ideas and opinions become personal and the individual in their defence becomes passionate.
It is true that emotion must be kept, as much as possible, out of the formulation of opinion but the expression of such a formulation, once made, can be emotional and passionate because it then becomes a life position with real life consequences and far reaching results.
Philosophical debate can and must include everything of human interest even the things that are unavoidably beyond his ability to perceive. But if philosophical debate does not also include discussions on subjects that offer an opportunity for personal growth and empowerment, if it does not have consequences in the everyday living of an individual, if it remains non-political then it becomes castrated and impotent in any real sense.
It becomes a game for the sophists wanting to remain as they are and only desiring a perspective on opposing beliefs that they can discard, as useless, using personal interests, prejudices and fears.
A sophist is like a fight spectator; he chooses sides and then yells for his man in support but, in the end, for him the result of the fight has no real results and so win or lose he will leave intact and unscathed. He therefore remains distant and cold, which comes off as confidence or superiority, but is in essence the indifference of non-participation. He can therefore laugh and cheerfully exit the stands without passion or risk, embracing the ones that opposed him in his choice. The extent of his participation is in utilizing his judgment to pick fighters. His only stake is one of ego.
For the sophist all fighters are noteworthy and respectable- he may have his favourite but all are his superior- but he can never feel the ecstasy of being in there or pay the personal sacrifices needed to enter himself.
The philosopher, on the other hand, is the fighter himself. He enters the arena to defend himself and to prove his worth by testing it facing another of his kind. For him the preparation required discipline and effort; blood and sweat was put into his ?'exercise', his askisis and now he gets into the rink risking both health and limb in order to become better. For him the fight is personal since it has direct consequences on his being and his beliefs and he's invested much time and effort in reaching fighting fitness.

In the end though who benefits more from a fight; the spectator or the fighter himself, win or lose?

If philosophy does not lead to personal growth and change then what is it good for, in mans ephemeral limited existence?

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Eccles
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 10:41 pm
Bravo, Wanderer! Welcome to our board. That was a lovely post, well written and presented a number of interesting ideas. Haha, from now on I will think of philosophy as the bastard child of science and art and smile ( I know you didn't say that, but I inferred, and it pleases me) .


Some of the terms are ill-defined, though, and difficult to deal with as a consequence. The aims of academic philosophy have changed over time and no longer represent

Ethics (both the kind studied at university and the kind embraced by people to live their lives) follows after science and society, not the society of intellectuals and their brand of philosophy, but rather society at a grass roots level. When science does follow after philosophy, it is not usually after the type of philosophy, but rather the types of "philosophy" that "common" folk embrace (which often tends towards religion and the classical conditioning, genetic encoding or whatever it is which we develop our sense of morality from ). Ethics is used to justify the "progresses" of society and science, not hte other way around.


The purpose and nature of art changes as a result of science, grass roots "philosophy" and the march of time ( which requires that art changes in order to prevent stagnation and also (more cynically, perhaps) loss of sales , but very rarely contributes to them. YOur definition of art is beautiful and partially correct. Such a lofty goal (as that you attribute to art) , however, is only a small part of art and artists . Some artists have that aim, but many, many don't, and even amongst those who do , they are striving to explore and express their own personal truths , which can be derived from many things, including religion, science, personal experience grass roots philosophy or even , among the more intellectual kind of artist, academic philosophy.

That's just my opinion, don't treat me too tired. As I will continue to say ( Razz regardless of what certain individuals who have recently changed from wearing a turtle on their head to wearing some small rat-like creature say), go easy on me, I'm tired.

There's also a discussion in the arts section at the moment whcih is related to this ("What is the purpose of art" ) which you might be interested in if you haven't been there yet).

Philosophy , like religion, helps give meaning and consolation to the largely meaningless and upsetting experience that is life.

The purpose of philosophising , in my opinion, is that it's an enjoyable distraction from writting assignments and studying. :wink: .
0 Replies
 
Eccles
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 10:41 pm
Bravo, Wanderer! Welcome to our board. That was a lovely post, well written and presented a number of interesting ideas. Haha, from now on I will think of philosophy as the bastard child of science and art and smile ( I know you didn't say that, but I inferred, and it pleases me) .


Some of the terms are ill-defined, though, and difficult to deal with as a consequence. The aims of academic philosophy have changed over time and no longer represent

Ethics (both the kind studied at university and the kind embraced by people to live their lives) follows after science and society, not the society of intellectuals and their brand of philosophy, but rather society at a grass roots level. When science does follow after philosophy, it is not usually after the type of philosophy, but rather the types of "philosophy" that "common" folk embrace (which often tends towards religion and the classical conditioning, genetic encoding or whatever it is which we develop our sense of morality from ). Ethics is used to justify the "progresses" of society and science, not hte other way around.


The purpose and nature of art changes as a result of science, grass roots "philosophy" and the march of time ( which requires that art changes in order to prevent stagnation and also (more cynically, perhaps) loss of sales , but very rarely contributes to them. YOur definition of art is beautiful and partially correct. Such a lofty goal (as that you attribute to art) , however, is only a small part of art and artists . Some artists have that aim, but many, many don't, and even amongst those who do , they are striving to explore and express their own personal truths , which can be derived from many things, including religion, science, personal experience grass roots philosophy or even , among the more intellectual kind of artist, academic philosophy.

That's just my opinion, don't treat me too tired. As I will continue to say ( Razz regardless of what certain individuals who have recently changed from wearing a turtle on their head to wearing some small rat-like creature say), go easy on me, I'm tired.

There's also a discussion in the arts section at the moment whcih is related to this ("What is the purpose of art" ) which you might be interested in if you haven't been there yet).

Philosophy , like religion, helps give meaning and consolation to the largely meaningless and upsetting experience that is life.

The purpose of philosophising , in my opinion, is that it's an enjoyable distraction from writting assignments and studying. :wink: .
0 Replies
 
nipok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 11:35 pm
Re: The Value of Philosophy
Wanderer wrote:
...Science is like trying to shed light in a dark room that will be changed by the very light you cast. One can never be sure that, in the dark, things remain the same or that the light used is powerful or precise enough to make everything visible... ...Art is like trying to describe a dark room by walking through it with the lights closed and feeling the movement of your body through the objects in it, the effect of the air upon you and the overall sensation you receive and then mimicking it to the best of your abilities for all to see... ...Philosophy bridges these two attitudes of exploration by combining the scientific desire to cast light on everything and the artistic disposition of gaining insight through instinct and emotional comprehension... ...In the end though who benefits more from a fight; the spectator or the fighter himself, win or lose??? ...If philosophy does not lead to personal growth and change then what is it good for, in mans ephemeral limited existence???


I second the motion made by Eccles, welcome aboard. Your ability to present ideas is both artistically scientific and scientifically artistic. I also see philosophy as a bridge and I see science being limited by the precision of our instruments.

As far as who wins the fight I suppose that depends on what is at stake. The fighter going at it full force for personal satisfaction, the fighter taking a dive for money, the fighter trying to win because the pay is better if he wins, the bookie who has favored odds, or the spectator who put up the down payment for his house on a hunch? I think that many philosophers spout their ideas partially because they like their interpretation of a concept and want to share it with others, and others may do it for personal gain, but I think that a few of us look to provide the spectator with that which they can not get elsewhere.

That being an alternative way to look at a problem that science, art, or religion has tried to interpret but left enough unanswered questions to ponder to cause the philosopher to ponder in the first place. Philosophers do not ponder if the Sun is hot or Pluto is cold, there is little to ponder there. It is where there are holes or gaps that need to be filled that we rise to the occasion. Do we do it for ourselves? I am sure many do, but not all of us.

I suppose that although I hate to make the analogy, many of us are more Jehovah's witnesses than anything else. We seek to convert the scientist, the religious zealot, and the artist maybe not so much to believe what we believe but more so to ponder what they believe. I preach (if you could call it that) not to tell people my ideas are right but more so to get people to open their minds to think for themselves. In turn maybe some religious zealots and some hard core scientists can both appreciate that there exists some things that we may never know but that does not mean one should not philosophize about the possibilities. For only in examining the possibilities can we ever expect to try to ever understand all that which both science and religion has already set up a road block for.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 08:41 am
Drawing the 'essence' from life, current, past, and future, is a matter of distilling a 'brew' of all the ingredients that affect the flavour of humanity.
If the name for this process is 'philosophy', so be it; but, it includes art, and science, within its very structure, or it is meaningless.

Agreeing with the majority of the ballance of your thesis, i must insist that the seeking out of 'value' and 'direction' from the chaos of influences forging the 'direction' of society, is not a competition, to be won or lost; but a shoulder to shoulder struggle for intellectual, and ethical survival. Only through co-operation, will those willing to wade into the maelstrom of traditional belief, instinct, fashion, style, custom, and practise - the inertia of popular culture, shovelling mindlessly like a driverless bulldozer toward the 'megadump' of civilization - working together, pooling their resources be able to lead the 'way' into a more logical, just, and egalitarian society.

[philosophy is the synergetic application of intellectual, physical, and emotional wisdom to the design of civilization]
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 09:01 am
Re: The Value of Philosophy
Wanderer wrote:
Science has been thought, in this ?'scientific age', as the forerunner of all human progress and the primary tool of human exploration.

Most arguments that are framed in this manner -- "X has always been thought of as Y" -- end up constructing a strawman version of X. And this case is no different. You not only create a strawman version of science, Wanderer, but you also do the same for art, and even for philosophy. Your impressionistic musings on these subjects thus can claim no more validity than your own bare assertions. To be sure, there are some interesting musings here, but you should be aware that they are only that.

Wanderer wrote:
This inter-relation of object and subject, described by Schopenhauer, has uncovered some uncomfortable realities about the extent of human knowledge and places doubt about the very likelihood of knowledge itself, as a whole; a subject tackled by epistemology in the philosophical discipline.

I've read a great deal of Schopenhauer, and I cannot recall a single instance where he talks about the inter-relation of object and subject. To what are you referring?

Wanderer wrote:
But philosophy is meaningless if only this attitude is adopted and no real-life consequences are looked for.
Philosophy is not only about a recitation of dead ideas and dead peoples opinions in an endless regurgitation of ?'what was meant' or ?'what was said'; it is a battle between two, or more, personal viewpoints and the destruction or alteration of the weaker one for the purpose of achieving a higher ?'truth' or a more worthy state of mind.

Karl Marx said pretty much the same thing over 150 years ago in his "Theses on Feuerbach:" "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it."
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