Just returned to US from Sydney...

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First - thanks MARGO for your comments to my last post. They were very helpful...

My wife and I just returned from our "fact-finding" trip to Sydney to see if we could move and work. Tough not to like when staying at the Four Seasons and all expenses paid but hey - we HAD to check it out.

Anyway, we fell in love with Pyrmont. New apartments are going up and the area has undergone a change over the past couple of years and is more family friendly than other in-town suburbs. If anyone has comments on Pyrmont - please let me know.

We wondered about a couple of things...
Why is tipping frowned upon? We tipped 20% for the first couple of meals and were informed that it isn't expected.
Are a lot of Sydneysiders anti-American? I had to "defend" America on several occasions (one person told me that we deserved 9/11- Shocked

). Just wondering if I'll have to defend the actions of my home country for my entire stay.

Overall, Sydney was better than expected. Beautiful, warm and mostly friendly. We are looking forward to our move in January.

Thanks,
FDP

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Hi FDP.

Pyrmont is a great place. If you liked it while visiting then you'll like living there. The drive to and from Moorebank may be annoying some days but it's not too bad.

Tipping is not expected in Australia. Some people do tip but even then it is highly unusual to tip more than 5-10%. It's not really frowned upon it's just that some places feel a bit embarrassed by it. As if you are giving them a hand out or something.

Sydneysiders, actually Australians in general, are NOT anti-American.
We are just NOT American, there is a difference.

There are some in Australia that disagree with the USA on different issues, and there are some (like myself) who just like to 'take the piss' now and again, but overall we like you guys.

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Deserved it?! Shocked

There's one at every party, aint there? Rolling Eyes

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Hmmm - I suspect there is a bit more than the usual anti-American sentiment at present - re Iraq and recent Presidential comments re Oz's involvement there.

However, I hoope you won't get much of such gross behaviour as the Sept 11 comment.

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Hi, FDP

My computer "chucked a wobbly" and I haven't been around much, so missed this.

Pyrmont is a lively, up and coming , urban renewal project. It looks good, but I don't know much about living there. Some good restaurants are popping up.

The commute to Moorebank may be a bit tedious. I worked at Moorebank a squillion years ago, and the walk each day from Liverpool station kept me considerably slimmer and fitter than I am now! Sad

Tipping is not frowned upon - just not considered necessary, espec not at 20% level. Service staff in Australia are payed a living, respectable wage, so don't depend on tips for income. They are just doing the job they're paid for and tips are extras.

I was thinking of this a couple of weeks ago, when staying at a resort in Ayers Rock. These places are obviously geared for international tourists - there's staff everywhere, luggage is carried to your room, etc., even in the lower-starred places (where I was!). The fellow who delivered our luggage just dropped our bags, said g'day and left. I'm sure if we'd sounded American he would still have been there! I never even thought of tipping until afterwards.

We don't really have a tipping culture, although, sadly this is changing. Australians, especially, I think, struggle with the tipping scene in US. In Oz, we might round up a cab fare, add a couple of dollars to a restaurant bill, (if the service was good, not otherwise!) but not usually in a cafe , but that's about it. We don't (well, I don't) tip the hairdresser, or assorted other people that I pay to do things for me. I've had a cab driver, on several occasions, round down the fare for me. I don't usually stay in hotels overseas with much in the way of staff (the Oz dollar doesn't allow this!).

So your 20% may well have attracted some askance looks. 10% for outstanding service in a restaurant would probably be the limit (unless you're particularly wealthy and like to share!)

Dlowan's right about the anti-US feeling at present - the Australian people are particularly opposed to our government taking us into a war that's not ours, and what they see as slavishly following George Bush. There are elections here in the next few weeks (please let them be over soon!), and we watch the outcome of yours with interest as well.

Feel free to post any questions - especially as it gets closer to the time to move.

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About tipping: actually, it's the same in (most) European countries. And you certainly can recognize an US_American by "over tipping".
(10% really is a quite good tip - that's what I give my hairdresser: she's such a nice girl ... :wink: ).

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I know when I was in Australia about 5 years ago - the serving staff made almost double the wage that a Canadian server would make - so the tipping was really necessary for them to make a living wage. But in Canada and the US serving staff make next to nothing without tips...

...would you Aussies agree with this?

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Yep.

And, frankly, I find it apalling that people are not considered worth a living wage.

I had no idea it was so in Canada as well, though? Don't you have wage regulations?

I worked in hospitality for years, when I was a student - and - if you give good service, you still make good tips. We always pooled them, though, so the people not actually serving tables shared them.

To Oz eyes, too, the mandatory nature of the tipping seems ridiculous, also - it is the oddest paradox - an expected, and assumed, GRATUITY??????? I was very conscious of the terrible wages folk get, so of course, I always tipped - but it drove me nuts.

We did not tip so generously in Canada, though - we assumed you had decent labour laws there!!!! Embarrassed

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i remember my grand-dad telling me that when he 'moonlighted' as a waiter in germany(about 1900 to 1910), not only did he not get paid any wages but waiters had to pay for the dishwashers. he often worked on sundays at a famous racetrack in hamburg, and i remember him telling me that the tips were quite substantial. apparently a good waiter would have an established group of clients and he would make sure that the food and drink orders would be carried out quickly. the reward would be good tip; i remember that he said receiving 'a gold piece' (20 marks) was not unusual. he lived well into his eighties and loved telling about the 'olden days' - he was quite a racounteur. hbg

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dlowan wrote:

Yep.

And, frankly, I find it apalling that people are not considered worth a living wage.

I had no idea it was so in Canada as well, though? Don't you have wage regulations?

To Oz eyes, too, the mandatory nature of the tipping seems ridiculous, also - it is the oddest paradox - an expected, and assumed, GRATUITY??????? I was very conscious of the terrible wages folk get, so of course, I always tipped - but it drove me nuts.

We did not tip so generously in Canada, though - we assumed you had decent labour laws there!!!!

Yep, as Deb says - all staff here are paid a proper wage - so it doesn't occur to us that they aren't in other countries. Tips are indeed the icing on their cake, not their basic living.

It makes it look as if those in service occupations are sort of beggars - a very poor attitude to staff!

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The only thing I will also point out about my time in Australia and restaurants is...because staff don't expect tips they don't seem, as a rule, to be nearly as attentive to their customers as to servers in Canada.

Don't get me wrong - I think it's better to pay them a living wage but T.I.P.S. (To Insure Prompt Service) generally do their job.

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After having made my last post I looked up T.I.P.S. and here's what I found...Tip isn't an acronym

Gotta love the 'net...always learning. Laughing

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Thanks everyone for responding...
I officially accepted the offer to move to Sydney today. We are really looking forward to the challenges that await us.

Thank you so much for responding my earlier post.

fdp
\/\
/\/

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Congratulations and well done - fdp!

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Be happy!

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FatDaddyPickle...

You gonna have a spare room in Sydney?

Congrats on the move.

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Ah, Jer - you can stay with us!!

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dlowan wrote:

Ah, Jer - you can stay with us!!

now that you don't smoke!

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ms buns I want to move and squinney says Canada is too cold....can we bunk with you? We're no trouble at all......

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Er - my bank just foreclosed on the mortgage.....

Sorry, Bears!

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Just returned to US from Sydney...

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