1
   

The bastards did it.

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 03:59 am
Chuckster wrote:
Wonderful! Wonderful! Watch this forum of wisemen and soothsayers start by blaming the rescuers of the hostages and not the the evil murdering bastards who took those innocent souls. True to form you wonderful humanitarians.


Chuckster, this is misplaced. Presumably you were in favour of bombing civilians in Iraq and the difference is?
These evil murdering bastards come from a country which has been smashed flat by, and is still occupied by, Mr Putin, the west's new friend.

Don't reply on this thread, this is not the place.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 08:53 am
Chuckster wrote:
Wonderful! Wonderful! Watch this forum of wisemen and soothsayers start by blaming the rescuers of the hostages and not the the evil murdering bastards who took those innocent souls. True to form you wonderful humanitarians.

Rolling Eyes Now, we ALL already now that those terrorists are slaughterers, who need no sympathy. That's O-B-V-I-O-U-S. What my respectable fellow A2K-ers are doing here is questioning the fact whether MORE carnage could have been prevented. That's NORMAL!
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 09:02 am
Under siege, human beings can only do their best under impossible circumstances; i'm sure much recrimination over what could have been will go on for years, but the core of the problem is that different groups of human beings are able to hate one another to the level that no hint of compassion enters into it!

What really bothers me is the inhumanity of the terrorists; beyond the killing - no food, no water, no access to toilets - for three days adults and children alike!

[these villains were somebody's children!]
0 Replies
 
primergray
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 11:58 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

What can be more heinous that firing automatic weapons at children trying to flee from a building in which explosives are going off?

~~~

For me, this is more horrific than 9/11.



Nothing.
~~~
I agree.

~~~

I think at this point it is incumbent upon the Chechens to route out the terrorists themselves. As Noddy says, they will get no sympathy or support from the rest of the world now.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 12:02 pm
When my husband wakes up before me, as he did this morning, he leaves the newspaper out for me on the table. So I stumbled directly from sleep to the photos on the front page of the Times, and burst into tears.

I read a bit, couldn't stand it, turned it over.

He then folded it in half, with the dead child obscured -- but I still see the top of the mother's face, looking for all the world like she is merely laying her cool hands on the brow of her minorly sick child -- a cold perhaps -- and I can't stand it. It's somehow even more excruciating than the expected pain.

I still haven't read the paper today.
0 Replies
 
colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 12:28 pm
Sozobe you've expressed exactly how I feel about this horrid event...and I too have avoided reading the paper.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 03:04 pm
Well, I did. Our newspaper didn't show pictures of dead people or whatever, though it was a really terrible photo of a boy in his undies crying for help while running from the scene. It made me all cold inside. Sad
0 Replies
 
drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 03:53 pm
MOSCOW, Sept. 4 (Xinhuanet) -- Death toll from the three-day hostage-taking tragedy in a southern Russian school has reached 330, including 156 children, Interfax news agency cited a regionalofficial as saying on Saturday.

Seven people who were injured in the crisis died Saturday nightin local hospitals, according to Lev Dzugayev, head of the information department of North Ossetia's presidential executive office.

By the night when the clean-up operation in the school area is finished, 270 bodies of hostages had been identified, and the identification work will continue during the night, according to Dzugayev.

The official said 448 injured people, including 248 children, remained in local hospitals and 69 of them are in critical condition.

Some 30 heavily armed militants seized the school in Russia's southern republic of North Ossetia on Wednesday, holding some 1,000 children and adults hostage for over 51 hours.

Russian troops suppressed armed hostage-takers in a 10-hour gunfight on Friday and rescued over 400 hostages.

Of the 26 killed hostage-takers, who demanded independence for the breakaway republic of Chechnya, ten are Arab mercenaries.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a televised speech to the nation Saturday evening that the hostage-taking was a terrorist strike against the whole country.

He promised to take measures to strengthen the country's unity and security, including building up "an effective anti-crisis system."

Vowing not to give in, Putin called on all Russian citizens to unite in the face of the terrorist threat and defeat the enemy.

Putin has declared Tuesday and Wednesday mourning days for the victims in the bloody attack by terrorists.

0 Replies
 
drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 03:54 pm
That was from two and a half hours ago. This is horrendous..

0 Replies
 
colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 04:28 pm
My granddaughter lives with me. She is five and started her first day of kindergarten last Tuesday. Stuff like this is not only horrifying; it creates a great deal of fear in all of us in ever letting our children out from under our wings.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2004 09:46 pm
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/28041.htm

RUSSIAN KID HOSTAGES DIE IN BLOODBATH

September 4, 2004 -- BESLAN, Russia -- Russian commandos stormed a school yesterday, ending a three-day standoff with Chechen hostage-takers in a bloody battle that killed at least 250 people -- dozens of them children -- and left hundreds wounded.

Some of the terrified children, naked and bloody, were mercilessly gunned down by the al Qaeda-backed terrorists as they tried to run for safety.

The troops were forced to storm the school in the southern Russian town of Beslan after 53 hours of fruitless negotiations, when the estimated 28 Chechen and Arab hostage-takers -- some with bombs strapped to their waists -- opened fire on scores of panicked children. The kids tried to run to safety after a series of explosions in a gymnasium where they had been held.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, who arrived in Beslan early today for a surprise three-hour visit, ordered security forces to block the region's borders in an attempt to track down any terrorists who may have gotten away during the siege.

"I have ordered Beslan to be sealed off, Ossetia's borders to be closed and checks to be carried out to find all people linked to the terrorist act," said Putin, who visited a local hospital where many of the wounded were taken for treatment.

The scene inside the school during the standoff was one of unimaginable horror.

One terrorist held up the corpse of a man just shot dead in front of hundreds of the hostages and warned, "If a child utters even a sound, we'll kill another one."


A former hostage, who identified himself as Teimuraz, told Associated Press TV that the 28 terrorists began wiring the gym with explosive booby traps as soon as they took over the building.

Freed hostage Alla Gadieyeva, mother of a pupil at the school, told Britain's Sky News that the Islamic fanatics, who wore long hair and beards, made the hostages kneel on the gym floor with hands over their heads and confiscated and smashed all cellphones.

She recalled that the terrorists laughed as the stifling heat began to build and children began to faint from heat and dehydration. The terrorists told their captives that if they were thirsty, they should drink their own urine, she said.

"We were in complete fear," Gadieyeva said. "People were praying all the time and those that didn't know how to pray, we taught them."

The fighting continued well into the night as three terrorists, including a man Russian media identified as Chechen military commander Magomet Yevloyev -- the mastermind of the evil takeover -- blockaded themselves in the basement. They reportedly held several hostages, including children.

Three terrorists, who had changed into civilian clothes during the battle, were arrested as they tried to escape, Russian authorities reported yesterday.

There were conflicting figures as to how many people died in the siege.

Valery Andreyev, regional director of the FSB security service, said authorities have identified the remains of 80 people.

More than 100 bodies were spotted in the school's gymnasium, most having died when the initial explosions from mines and booby traps set by the terrorists caused the part of the roof and a wall to collapse.

Scores more corpses -- including those of children -- were seen outside morgues in the southern Russian town near Chechnya.

"The number of those killed in the terrorist act in Beslan could be more than 150," said Aslambek Aslakhanov, Putin's top aide on Chechnya.

The Interfax News agency reported late last night that the death toll had climbed to 250 and other Russian media reported that 646 people, including more than 300 children, were taken to hospitals.

Aslakhanov said 20 terrorists -- including 10 "Arab mercenaries" -- were killed in the battle.

One female terrorist -- suspected of being a member of the cult-like Black Widows terror gang -- reportedly exploded a bomb strapped to her waist inside the gym as the fighting began.

Another was arrested outside a local hospital dressed in a white hospital gown, according to Russian media reports.

As President Bush opened his post-convention campaign swing in Pennsylvania, the White House reacted angrily to what aides say is a dramatic escalation of the Chechen terrorist campaign for independence.

"The responsibility for the tragic loss of life rests with the terrorists," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

"The United States stands side by side with Russia in our global fight against terrorism. There is no justification for the taking of innocent life, and the barbaric nature of this terrorist act is despicable," McClellan added.

Russian officials insisted they did not plan to use force to retake the school, even though the terrorists -- demanding that Moscow withdraw from Chechnya so they can establish an Islamic state -- repeatedly refused to allow authorities to send in food, water and medicine for the estimated 1,200 hostages inside the sweltering gym.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 12:13 am
We are all horrified by this.

The news media have brought us unrestricted coverage of it. It has made a huge impact.

The news media did not bring us coverage of the results of our bombing of civilians in Iraq. We cannot even get reliable figure of how many were killed, how many families destroyed. But it was more, much more than in the Caucasus kidnap.

So, our horror and outrage are being selectively managed.

McT
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 12:35 am
Good point, McTag. The cynisysm of the media and of our government makes this horror seem to be outside the "civilized" behavior of modern, industrial nations.

Are the Arab mercenaries in Beslan associated with Alqeida? It makes me wonder if the Arab mercenaries murdering black Sudanese are also members of Al Qeida.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 12:52 am
I just don't get it...

This action just didn't have any possible chance to succeed. Controlling hundreds of little children is extremely difficult, much tougher when they're frightened. Nobody could possibly expect Russians will leave Chechnya.

Attracting more terrorists is not likely either. Moreover, it is possibly the end of any foreign aid to the Chechen cause. I might be wrong, but I think Islamic world is as shocked as the rest. Add to this unnecessarily cruel attitude to the hostages.

Palestinians did this only once as far as I remember (circa 1973) and abandoned the idea very quickly.

Someone else finds this strange? I mean, they don't care about human lives, but are they THAT dumb?

Did anyone dare to take responsibility for that yet?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 12:58 am
McTag wrote:
We are all horrified by this.

The news media have brought us unrestricted coverage of it. It has made a huge impact.

The news media did not bring us coverage of the results of our bombing of civilians in Iraq. We cannot even get reliable figure of how many were killed, how many families destroyed. But it was more, much more than in the Caucasus kidnap.

So, our horror and outrage are being selectively managed.

McT

I don't recall the last time US soldiers in Iraq shot children in the back deliberately as they tried to escape, or held a school for ransom to extract concessions for that matter.

Quote:
One terrorist held up the corpse of a man just shot dead in front of hundreds of the hostages and warned, "If a child utters even a sound, we'll kill another one."

Yes, that is very reminiscent of US soldiers in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 02:39 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
McTag wrote:
We are all horrified by this.

The news media have brought us unrestricted coverage of it. It has made a huge impact.

The news media did not bring us coverage of the results of our bombing of civilians in Iraq. We cannot even get reliable figure of how many were killed, how many families destroyed. But it was more, much more than in the Caucasus kidnap.

So, our horror and outrage are being selectively managed.

McT

I don't recall the last time US soldiers in Iraq shot children in the back deliberately as they tried to escape, or held a school for ransom to extract concessions for that matter.

Quote:
One terrorist held up the corpse of a man just shot dead in front of hundreds of the hostages and warned, "If a child utters even a sound, we'll kill another one."

Yes, that is very reminiscent of US soldiers in Iraq.


You didn't address my point.

My point is, we don't know what American.allied troops did in Iraq, because we are not told.
The news is being selectively managed.

Would anyone have imagined the goings-on in Abu Graib prison, if some photos had not got out by accident? No.

Until we can look at the whole picture, this conflict will continue.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 02:45 am
McTag wrote:
You didn't address my point.

My point is, we don't know what American.allied troops did in Iraq, because we are not told.
The news is being selectively managed.
Sorry for getting into the dialogue, but... you have the internet, you know.

Al-Jazeera, for example, can hardly be blamed for being neoconservative or pro-American. And it's all in English. I'm sure that in the event of the atrocities you describe they wouldn't overlook that.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 03:39 am
Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 05:19 am
Galilite wrote:
McTag wrote:
You didn't address my point.

My point is, we don't know what American.allied troops did in Iraq, because we are not told.
The news is being selectively managed.
Sorry for getting into the dialogue, but... you have the internet, you know.

Al-Jazeera, for example, can hardly be blamed for being neoconservative or pro-American. And it's all in English. I'm sure that in the event of the atrocities you describe they wouldn't overlook that.


You didn't get my point either. Disingenuous?

Our news media, the ones which are received by 99.99% of households, talk of terrorist atrocities and not of the deeds which are done, equally terrible, in our name.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 05:44 am
McTag wrote:
Our news media, the ones which are received by 99.99% of households, talk of terrorist atrocities and not of the deeds which are done, equally terrible, in our name.

Well maybe the latter are not "equally terrible" and there are much fewer. This is my point.

You did hear about Abu Ghraib, didn't you?

You say, an average American won't go read Al Jazeera, right? What about an average American journalist looking for a scoop?

Forget about average Americans and Al Jazeera. French media won't miss a chance to show American (and Western in general) atrocities. Moreover, the latter are always inflated; I remember one time when Israeli army used color markers to write the numbers on the prisoners' wrists and the media compared them to Nazis (again). Now, if the terrorists would use a color marker on hostages, would it make to media?

It's not so easy to hide things nowadays. And, putting aside the belief that evil "they" rule the world, regular army just doesn't have any motives to hit the civilians, while it is the major task of the terrorists.
0 Replies
 
 

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