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Liberal teacher forces views on High School students.

 
 
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2003 10:10 pm
Is this defensible in a classroom?


The 'teacher' in question was on O'Reilly, and stated the opposing view was covered by an invitation to Bush to come to the class.

Right or wrong?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,982 • Replies: 24
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:00 am
Teachers are there to teach and not promote or discuss political ideology. There should be one more option in your poll.
Neither of the above.
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:04 am
My Heavenly Goodness, Lash, you may have accomplished something that no one else (in my memory) has been able to do.

Reach a unanimous consensus on A2K!!

Well done!
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Phoenix32890
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:10 am
This guy needs to be spouting his views on the unemployment line. What a gross disregard of ethical teaching!
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timberlandko
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:52 am
The guy is a jerk, he's dangerous, and he's not alone. He just happened to be one who got nailed. There are lots just like him out there, and it doesn't much matter if they spout facism, maoism, racism, or sexism. There is no place for such behavior anywhere, let alone in academia.


timber
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:20 am
Timber
Don't forget religion.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:21 am
It's interesting, how you react and poll to 'news', nearly one year old and obviously just using one quote.

Interesting, too, that this teacher didn't get nailed, but just three days without payment:
http://www.naplesnews.com/02/02/naples/d765306a.htm
http://www.naplesnews.com/02/02/naples/d768452a.htm

More interesting, however, is this comment from the St. Petersburg Times:
"No one seemed to notice Ian Michael Harvey's political views until he was challenged at an antiwar demonstration. That's when the challengers found out he was a high school teacher."
http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2002/05/20/State/Education_or_Activism.shtml
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Lash Goth
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:22 am
Timber's comment concerns me, as well.

This guy only got caught because of how outrageous his remarks were, and how personally upset some of the students became...

What worries me is the idea of others like him, but more low-key, who are getting away with it.

But, wow, 100% agreement. Cool
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:27 am
On the other hand, I've read here and elsewhere that science teachers who cannot accept the evidence of more than a hundred years of rigorous scientific testing are teaching science to US-American children.

http://www.benbova.net/sci-teaching.htm

You are going to nail them as well?
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Phoenix32890
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:28 am
Lash- Agree. I think that college is time enough for a student to choose courses that may reflect a particular bias. And the operative word here is CHOOSE. In high school, a student is required to take certain courses, the content of which needs to be presented in an unbiased fashion!
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sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:45 am
I read this last night and refrained from responding, 'cause I saw spin all over it. Could be it's actually as bad as the article Lash posted, in which case I'd agree, not a good thing. (Though hardly confined to liberals, as Walter points out.) Looks like the spin could go the other way, too, though -- a basically decent if somewhat confrontational teacher (anyone see "Stand and Deliver"?) gets in trouble for his ideological views as shown OUTSIDE the classroom (a protest) and THEN charges are made about his general teaching style. From one of the articles Walter found:

Quote:
Harvey and many of his students say the investigator misportrayed his teaching style and interviewed only 15 of his 172 students.


Quote:
"I think the school system totally played into the hands of a right wing, fanatical group who challenged them, caught them off guard," countered John Dwyer, a fellow teacher of Harvey's at Lely High who has joined him at antiwar protests. "They are highly offended by anybody that's not in total support of putting stickers and flags on their car."


Quote:
When NATO flew bombing raids over Kosovo in 1999, he asked them to consider whether the bombs had caused more deaths than Serb forces. He read them materials that questioned media reports about mass graves and ethnic cleansings.

"Nobody even noticed," Harvey said of administrators and parents. "Not a peep."


Quote:
"He always said, 'Don't believe me. Find out for yourself,' " said Woodward, [a student], who collected 278 student signatures on a pro-Harvey petition. "He didn't give his side on it. He'd just throw out questions."


Quote:
DeBaun said the criticisms had nothing to do with Harvey's monthly antiwar protests off campus. But Harvey notes that his troubles began with the first protest on Dec. 9.

"Lo and behold a week later I was under formal investigation."


Quote:
The Harvey episode also has brought pangs of regret on the left. Dwyer, Harvey's fellow teacher at Lely, said he once ran into trouble 22 years ago as a young Collier County teacher.

He hung an antiapartheid calendar in his classroom, along with posters opposing capital punishment and supporting abortion rights, plus an ad that poked fun at the U.S. Navy.

When members of a visiting business group saw the display one day, the principal ordered him to take it down. Dwyer resisted. But as a father of four, he backed down when the school threatened to fire him.

"I've kicked myself since," he said. "I should have fought it." It is why he stands up two decades later for Ian Harvey, a man he counts as a colleague but not a friend -- a man with whom he disagrees on some issues.

On this issue, he says, his colleague is right.

When a teacher like Ian Harvey tries to facilitate discussion, he said, "It's sometimes necessary for him to say things which, taken out of context, might be easily skewed."



I still don't feel like I have enough info to judge this case -- could go either way. (Bad teacher who doth protest too much, good teacher in the wrong place in the wrong time, railroaded by the system.) But I think it's dangerous to extrapolate too much from it.

And in terms of this poll, I don't think it's clear that he was promoting his political ideology without allowing opposing viewpoints. For example,

Quote:
Amanda Woodward, a 16-year-old junior at Lely High, remembers a discussion about censorship when Harvey posited a conservative view: "He was like, 'Well, would you want your 3-year-old listening to F this and F that?"'


I'm not voting 'cause I just don't like implications.
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:51 am
Walter--

Interesting indeed. I was going to use these various articles as an example of liberal spin to this story. The "retribution for anti-war, liberal slant" purposefully omitted a few important facts about this man's classroom behavior.

The liberal slant story I saw (may be one you've cited, I'm going to read next) LEFT OUT the student's grades (D's and failing for those who disagreed) and the conservative student who was threatened, and the student whose boyfriend was serving, who became upset and asked him to curb his vitriol against the service--who he ignored.

The profanity is a seperate, but equal infraction. These were NINTH graders.

Even the damning story says what this teacher does on his spare time is his own business... He can protest the war all he likes...just not in the classroom. And he may not forcefully indoctrinate students toward his politics.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:53 am
Obviously, there was much more behind this story: an archive search gave three results starting like: "A Florida high school teacher, Mr. Harvey once had the guts over objections from a principal named Jeremiah Primus to show students the film Schindler's List ...".
None of these links is still active.
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:00 am
Walter--

I think you missed a couple of important facts. He was not 'just suspended for three days.' The article stated when he returns, it will be in a capacity NOT DIRECTLY TEACHING CHILDREN.

I also think the findings of the investigation are important:

In his seven-page report, district investigator Peter DeBaun concluded that Harvey:

Used his classroom as a forum to espouse his ideological views and thus make his students sit as a captive audience to the detriment of the learning environment.

Provided course materials, engaged in discussion and behaved in such a way that served to inhibit the free flow of ideas and skew learning ideologically so as to taint the learning process in violation of School Board policy and The Principles of Professional Conduct of the Education Profession in Florida.

Allowed his ideological views to affect the efficiency of school operations.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:09 am
I don't think there's enough information here to comment on what happened in this particular situation. It appears, and i stress appears, that this teacher encouraged students to think - to discuss, debate, question, look at various sides of issues, while in the classroom.

Generally speaking, I wouldn't approve of any teacher to presenting only one side of a topic. They are there to teach children to think critically - to develop opinions, to be able to express themselves. If they are doing those things, they're doing what they should be doing. Certainly at the high school level, I would expect them to present intellectual challenges to the students.
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mikey
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:09 am
whew !!! i refrained from posting last night also. i thought i was the only one

what Sozobe said.
not enough info, lots of spin tho. one or two students/parents with considerable financial and political means will go to great lengths to railroad a teacher. i've seen it before. it's going on in our local school system now.

less than 10% interviewed, 278 pro harvey signatures? to early for me to pass judgement.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:13 am
Lash - i'd be hesitant to put too much value on the report of the district investigator.
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dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:22 am
if the accused witch dies when submerged in the lake it proves her innocence, however, she is dead.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:23 am
Wonder if he will float?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 01:17 pm
Sorry, Lash, that I missed some readings.

Actually, I do thinks, high school students should be able to discuss such subjects under different aspects, taught objectively as possible. (This reminds me that some schools didn't like me teaching sexual pedagogics when coming from the charity organisation I was employed,but I could only do so, when acting in name of the public health service - teaching and discussions were of course identical.)
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