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Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:43 pm
Do "Mind/Consciousness Expanding" drugs really exist?
(Really? If you think they do exist, name them?)
Is it possible to catch a glimpse of Ultimate Reality using drugs?
Or is that all a bunch of hot air, just an excuse to get high?
Why or why not?
Feel free to include personal "experiences."
I say they exist. Certain experiences in that area have left an an impression on my consciousness.
Although, I'll add the caveat that I am not sure the "expansion" is permanent. There are no free lunches. It gives you a glimpse of what is possible. You may have a moment in eden. Then you are kicked back out. So in that sense, maybe they aren't mind expanding.
And the irony is, the higher you get, the more wonderful the eden is, the more painful it is when you are inevitably kicked out again.
Thats what turns some into hopeless drug addicts. They chase that original high, that original eden, and they will never reach it. No matter what perfect drug and perfect circumstance they put together. They get kicked out of a lesser eden, sooner and sooner.
I know someone who swears by this Salvia stuff. He talks about his experiences with it like he's had an awakening or a profoundly revealing experience, yet I remain skeptical. I do believe that he is trying to experience an expansion of his mind through his drug experiences, not just using it to get high.
What do people mean by "mind expansion". Do they get smarter? More insightful? Are they privy to some ultimate "truth" that is denied to the rest of us?
Personally, I think that some people just like to get high. It feels good. Problem is, sometimes these people are so far out in la-la land, that they are unable to take care of the mundane business of living.
I learned a method of breathing that I suppose you could lump into the same category as "mind expanding" drugs. It was so powerful that I was actually hallucinating. It was done under controlled conditions, with someone monitoring me all the time. She had to stop me when I started screaming, because of a particularly nasty hallucination.
I tried it once again, by myself, and got similar, if less powerful, results. Maybe I will attempt it one more time!
LSD was originally concocted as an aid for psychoanalysts (perhaps psychologists, I forget which). It was claimed they had very good results early on, until the general public discovered and many started to use it in other ways. I don't know that further use was made of it after that.
Ecstacy has similar proponents in the shrink community.
It seems to me that psychoactive drugs force you to think through different channels, and so to come to different conclusions than you normally would or to come to the same conclusion via a different logic. I dunno about "mind expanding" per se, but I have often found some drugs useful in adjusting my perspective on things.* I've also found drugs to be a kick in the ass -- feelin' groovy without any grand revelations (like "Man, I've got to get out of Chicago").
I also find pot to be a spectacularly effective muscle relaxant, but that may just be me. I don't really get the munchies, so I might be strange.
* A mundane example of what I'm talking about above: I'm a spatial thinker. I don't deal that well with symbolic abstraction, but if I can construct a three dimensional mental model of a problem, I can usually beat it. So a while back I was taking a physiology class and having trouble getting the sequence of events in the kidneys down. I happened to be a little stoned one afternoon, with nothing much to do, so I turned off the stereo and dragged out the textbook and picked through the chapter on the kidneys. It was very slow going, but as I went through the pages, I was able to visualize a technicolor animation of which particle were popping through the walls of which tubes at which times, and suddenly it made perfect sense. More importantly, it continued to make perfect sense when I wasn't stoned, and my mental model didn't conflict with anything the book was saying. I doubt that counts as mind expanding, but certainly a drug pointed me toward a learning technique that I hadn't employed before, and which I have used a great deal since (without the pot). I've had similar experiences with other drugs (mushrooms, LSD) and thinking about less geeky things, but that was the most concrete example I could come up with.
patiodog--
Quote:I might be strange.
kinbda reminds of of Admiral Byrd's comment about the north pole
Quote:"it was a bit brisk"
thanks, dys. considering the source, i'll take that as a compliment.
The problem i've had with this thread from the outset is the ambiguity of the term "mind expanding." My experience with psych-o-delic substances certainly heightened my awareness of my environment. On the matter of deeper aspects of my personal psychology, i would opine that such experiences simply emphasized and brought to my conscious awareness those things which matter to me. The most notable example is my aversion to cruelty, especially toward those little able or unable to defend themselves. Without claiming to be virtuous, i will say that my drug experiences lead me to see the world filtered through my ethics, and, in fact, helped me to more readily identify what ethos i wished to have.
Apart from that, the trips were a gas, all by themselves.
After years of experimentation I've come to the conclusion that these drugs don't actually expand your mind. They just take it to a less restrictive plateau.
I like that. "Drugs don't expand your mind, they just take it out of the suburbs."
My body is Walking In Space
My soul is in orbit with God face to face
Floating, flipping; Flying, tripping
Tripping from Potsville to Starlight
Tripping from Starlight to Moonville
On a rocket to the Fourth Dimension
Total self-awareness, the intention . . .
I can't believe no-one has brought up mushrooms!
I brought 'em up several times. They just don't agree with me.
mushrooms, lsd, same thing different pattern
Several posters have pointed out that the phrase "mind expansion" is ambiguous. Agreed. I searched around for a definition, and found so many various definitions, its almost meaningless. Most definitions were not very satisfactory. Below is something that might suffice here, well enough to debate with. (I don't necessarily agree with all of this definition of "expanded consciousness," it has some problems in my view, but it paints a flavor of what I was trying to get at with the original question.):
Quote:The universe, as we directly experience and understand it, is but a construct of the brain that enables us to navigate about and get what we want. It's not a true picture of reality. There are many ways of constructing and experiencing reality, and there are ways of perceiving things other than the 'normal' construct that the vast majority of mankind employs. These different constructs depend on different modes of consciousness. Space itself is but a mental construct. There are many ways to construct space other than the familiar Euclidean space most people experience.
We (our conscious worlds) are but waves or ripples on the surface of something vast, the Self, a consciousness which underlies and encompasses all the little spheres of self-consciousness. If you directly experience the bigger picture, you'll see just how much of an illusion our 'normal' perceptual reality is. People are stuck in their little waves of individuality, they never look deep beneath the surface, and there's something vast there.
Our perceptual constructs will soon give way to something far more profound, something currently inconceivable for the vast majority of humanity because they're all trapped in their little worlds, and they think it's reality, but it's not. We are the universe conscious of itself. Humanity has been confined for so long in an illusion. Individuality will give way to the experience of something common, that underlies the individuality.
What does it mean to raise or expand your consciousness?
Expanded consciousness means the individual becomes conscious of more objects, states or facts at any one time, including sensations, perceptions, emotions, thoughts and feelings. Being able to connect more facts, figures, ideas and concepts together enabling him to see a bigger picture, or piece of the puzzle. The individual starts to see more aspects of him/herself and expands the possibilities of how s/he may potentially interact with the universe. The individual begins to see how his/her actions affects other beings in the universe, on a deeper and more profound level.
It means to start becoming more conscious at all levels and aspects of your life. No more living on automatic pilot. It means to stop the madness in your life, at least for some period of time each day, in meditation or contemplation for the purpose of exploring the real Self. Able to see and explore the intricacies and complexities that you never paid attention to before. Explore your heart and who you truly are, all the aspects of your eternal identity. Decide what it is that you want for your life. How would you like to see your life unfold? What are your dreams? What would you like to manifest or become with your present incarnation? What are your goals? As you start raising your consciousness, your desires, your interests and your priorities will change. You will start to realize that you, and only you, are the creator and the prime authority for your life, in spite of all other external appearances.
Shrooms are great.
Not only are they fun, you gain a new perspective on aspects of your own personality and life.
Though I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who is depressed. Bad trips are no good.
Cycloptichorn
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