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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
is there a downside to other members of the EU of Britain opting out?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 01:10 pm
http://i65.tinypic.com/29zxa2d.jpg
Church of England
0 Replies
 
Tes yeux noirs
 
  3  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 01:15 pm
@ehBeth,
The economic cost-benefit calculus of Brexit might not even be entirely negative for the EUx. For example, EUx member states may try and usurp the UK’s position as the EU’s most popular destination for foreign direct investment. Over the past 15 years, the UK has received more than 20% of inward EU FDI, but without full access to the EU’s internal markets, future FDI flows into car factories or financial services hubs that would have gone into the UK had it remained a member of the EU might be redirected and create jobs elsewhere in the EUx.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 01:22 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
is there a downside to other members of the EU of Britain opting out?
Personally, I will have to pay more for some jams, marmalades and cookies. And might have to get a 'visitor card' (if they'll still to enter with my ID-card) or with a passport (and visa), like in the 60's of last century.

The downside ... ? Well, I think that it really will take some time to make new treaties etc. But that won't stop there - e.g. Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Norway ... will try to get better deals than the UK. Or the same, whatever the outcome is.

A real downside will be for the UK-expats: we have something like 400 UK-nationals as citizens in our district. Some dozens already applied for German nationality.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:00 pm

Britain paid at least £650m in penalties to EU over last decade due to misspent funds by Government departments
Quote:
UK has sixth highest level of so-called ‘disallowance’ payments of any country in the EU, as a proportion of the funding it received, House of Commons Public Accounts Committee report reveals.
[...]
Britain has paid back £2.70 in fines for every £100 it received from the European Union in funding for farming and rural development, according to a report by MPs.

Over the last decade, at least £650m worth of penalties have been incurred from the European Commission because Government departments wrongly spent EU funding, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee (PAC) said.
[...]
Vote Leave chief executive, Matthew Elliott, said: “‘We hand to £350 million pounds to Brussels every week. Some of that money does get sent back to the UK, but it is not necessarily spent on our priorities and it is laden with strict rules and conditions. Even worse, the EU often fines us if we don’t do exactly what Brussels says.”

James McGrory, Chief Campaign Spokesman for Stronger In, said: “As this report demonstrates, the UK benefits from billions of pounds of EU funding for our farmers, universities and small businesses, which would be lost if we leave.”
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 27 Apr, 2016 09:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Families losing £150 a month is a price worth paying for Brexit, Leave campaign chief says
Quote:
Britain should leave the European Union even if Treasury figures suggesting families will lose an average of £150 a month turn out to be true, the head of one of the Leave campaigns has said.

Arron Banks, co-founder of Leave.EU, appeared before the Treasury Select Committee on Wednesday to explain the economic costs and benefits of the European Union.

The millionaire businessman and former Tory-turned Ukip donor was asked by Labour MP Rachel Reeves whether the loss of £150 per household was a “price worth paying”.

“I think it’s 21p an hour, about £5 a day, £150 a month – I think many of our constituents would regard £150 a month as quite a substantial amount of money – money that they couldn’t afford to be without,” she said.

“But you would say to those people that £150 a month is a price worth paying for leaving the European Union?”

After a minute of grilling, Mr Banks replied: “This isn’t about pounds and pence, this is about our democracy.

“I would say the figure is massively incorrect but if it was to be the case I would still advocate leaving.”

Quote:
The OECD has estimated that departure would cost the average household a month’s salary, £2,200, by the end of the decade.
The OECD’s policy paper said that even before the EU’s formal departure from the EU, which the thinktank assumes would happen in late 2018, the UK would be hurt by weaker confidence and more expensive credit.

Once the terms of a “divorce” settlement had been agreed, Britain would face higher trade barriers and feel the early impact of restrictions on immigration, it predicts.

“By 2020, GDP would be over 3% smaller than [with continued EU membership], equivalent to a cost per household of £2,200 [at today’s prices],” the OECD added. The rest of the EU would see GDP shaved by one percentage point by the decade’s end.

It added that in the longer term, UK labour productivity would be slower because there would be less inward investment and restrictions on labour mobility would create a smaller pool of skills.
Source
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 27 Apr, 2016 09:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The more I read, the more it seems the EU would benefit from helping Britain leave.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Apr, 2016 09:49 am
@ehBeth,
Most don't think so.

I remember when the discussion about the UK entering the EEC was discussed in England in the 60's. Since that time, I've always thought, they never would like to be "Europeans".

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The European Union would insist on completing a swift divorce with Britain before starting to forge any new relationship if UK voters decide in June to leave the 28-member bloc.

Two EU sources familiar with the bloc's latest thinking on a possible Brexit told Reuters on Thursday there was no appetite to grant any extension of the two years provided by the EU's Lisbon Treaty for negotiating a withdrawal, while any new trade partnership would take many more years to conclude.
[...]
British Europe minister David Lidington, who supports the "Remain" camp, said on Thursday it was doubtful whether Britain would get any trade agreement with the EU within 10 years.

However, "Leave" supporters have argued that the EU would have to conclude a quick free trade deal with London since the continent has a big trade surplus with the UK and stood to lose exports if tariff barriers were introduced.
Source
Lordyaswas
 
  0  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Whereas the French would just shrug and ignore it.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  0  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Scaremongering.

BMW, BOSCH, SIEMENS, VOLKSWAGON etc etc would be banging on Merkel's door within hours of any Brexit, demanding that their massive exports to us be safeguarded.


The same with French Wine producers, Champagne exporters, cheese producers, beer producers etc.....they would be straight on to Hollande.




Classic scaremongering.


What people have to remember is that about 80% of our GDP trade is with ourselves.
Approx 20% is export, less than half of which is with the EU.


Lordyaswas
 
  0  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Most don't think so.

I remember when the discussion about the UK entering the EEC was discussed in England in the 60's. Since that time, I've always thought, they never would like to be "Europeans".





It actually all depends on your definition of European, Walter.

There is a hell of a difference in living in a fully self governing democratic European country which enjoys free trade with its European neighbours, and living in a European country where laws are made and imposed from outside.

I would have thought that a modern German would consider self governing democracy a precious thing.

Maybe it's the reverse.

Maybe it's because quite a few countries within mainland Europe are used to having their territory run by outsiders.

Who knows?



I repeat for the third or fourth time. This is 90% about self governing democracy as far as I am concerned.

I want my laws to be made or amended by people who were entirely elected by British voters. That way we can also vote them out of office if we wish.
Lordyaswas
 
  0  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Scaremongering again.


However, I would personally prefer to be poorer and live in a democracy, if the propaganda turns out to be true.

Brits have always cut their cloth accordingly.

We would just make sure that our German cars lasted us five or six years longer, before buying a new one. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  0  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"No doubt they will, but if they succeed, they’ll get Boris Johnson for their troubles, or worse, and for four more years. That’s a long time to be on the wrong horse."

It is very unlikely.

Personally I would even be prepared to have the idiot shower that are presently causing chaos in the Labour Party ruling me as long as they were democratically elected by Brits.

That way, at least we can vote them out at the end of term if needs be.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:12 am
I'll back out now, because it's all just turning into scaremongering and outlandish forecasts on both sides in press articles and TV and I'm totally sick of it all.

We will survive very well whatever happens. Trade and business will quickly re-establish because we are an absolutely MASSIVE market for the EU, and right on their doorstep.


Regaring the US, currently, we have approx £280 billion worth of investments in the USA, and the USA has about £300 billion invested in the UK.
I don't think that their businessmen will turn their backs on us anytime soon.

Anyway, this whole thing is all turning into how the bottom line is going to be affected, which is for a start, pure conjecture, and which totally misses the point.

I want full democracy restored to Britain, and I want Britain to be fully self governing again, living by its own laws. End of.

Final point. No way am I alone in feeling like this. I forecast now that the quiet man is just sitting at home and waiting for Referendum day, and the end result will surprise everyone.






I'll now let the scaremongering (or not, depending on what side you are) continue.

Bye,
Tes yeux noirs
 
  2  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:17 am
@Lordyaswas,
Quote:
about 80% of our GDP trade is with ourselves.

About 100% of our sex is with ourselves... le vice anglais?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:03 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

Scaremongering.

BMW, BOSCH, SIEMENS, VOLKSWAGON etc etc would be banging on Merkel's door within hours of any Brexit, demanding that their massive exports to us be safeguarded.


The same with French Wine producers, Champagne exporters, cheese producers, beer producers etc.....they would be straight on to Hollande.




Classic scaremongering.


What people have to remember is that about 80% of our GDP trade is with ourselves.
Approx 20% is export, less than half of which is with the EU.



What you should rember is that the UK is one of 28 EU-countries. And all those brands/products you mentioned, they all need different treaties ... with the EU and not with Merkel or Hollande. (Ratified in all 27 countries afterwards.)

Yes, Volkswagen might get some more difficulties, they own Bentley. Rolls-Royce Motor Cars and Mini are owned by BMW - difficult for them, too. Opel want get difficulties with Vauxhall ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:09 pm
@Lordyaswas,
You see, German states carefully try to keep all as there business ... besides, when they want money from the Federal government.
Same is with districts regarding the state, municipalities with districts ...

We don't have such a central like you got one in London. /There would be an outcry, if someone in Düsseldorf or - perish the thought! - in Berlin would make decissions where to built what houses here in our town.
But we are used to EU-laws. Complain about them, if they don't do us a personal favour, like them as consumers ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:12 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

There is a hell of a difference in living in a fully self governing democratic European country which enjoys free trade with its European neighbours, and living in a European country where laws are made and imposed from outside.
Well, the EEC and later the EU was the institution which made these free trades possible - before, there had been multi trade-borders between neighbouring countries (leaving aside the BENELUX countries)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:16 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
I want full democracy restored to Britain, and I want Britain to be fully self governing again, living by its own laws. End of.
Does this mean, you prefer that the UK leaves NATO as well?
0 Replies
 
 

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