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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 09:10 am
@Mame,
It doesn't matter what the public says.

There won't be another general election for two years.

Other than the situation I discussed in my last post, the only people who can get rid of him are the Tory MPs and they botched that.

The current ruoes, (which may be changed,) means hecan't be challenged for another year.

Johnson won a huge majority in 2019, taking many "safe" Labour seats.

Now there were many factors involved, Corbyn had been demonised by the tabloids and didn't really help himself, lies were told about Brexit, the NI protocol, the replacement of EUagricultural subsidies and pledges were made to level up these "red wall seats."

Yet for many Tory MPs Johnson was the reason they won, his affable bumbling personality won people over, he is the Big Dog, and ditching him would be a mistake.

The two things to look out for are thefirstcommonsvote on the NI protocol, with a majority of 80 it should be a walk in the park, but 148 Tory MPs voted against Johnson in the vonfidence vote.

Some of them may well vote with Labour despite what presdure the whips put them under.

Regardless of that it will fail in the Lords and be sent back with a load of ammendments do they may wait until after that.

The second thing is next weeks byelections which look like being won by Labour and the Liberals, although Labour is ghe only party clerly ahead of the Tories in Wakefield. The Liberals are still a couple of points behind in Tiverton & Honiton.


Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 09:17 am
@izzythepush,
I'm just wondering what the general populace are thinking of him and his government with all this going on and Partygate, etc. Do they like him like they did or are many turning from him and his party? Well, I guess your by-elections may indicate something, won't they? Are people worried about the reverberations from his stance on the EU agreement? I know there are a lot of headaches with importing/exporting and people having lost their jobs and not being able to drive with their UK passport (if they reside outside the UK), etc... and I was just wondering how disturbed or upset people are.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 09:44 am
@Mame,
It depends on who you ask, what polls etc.

The problem with Brexit is that most Brexiteers voted with their emotions, not their brains.

My best friend voted Brexit despite me telling him not to, he believed the bollocks he read in the paper.

He realises it was a mistake, he used to sell a lot of stuff to the EU, he can't do that any more, the paperwork is way too arduous.

He regrets Brexit big time, but one of his other mates refuses to accept it, he keeps saying it will get better despite everything having got a lot worse.

People like that are going to stick with Johnson no matter what. It's a mixture of fanaticism, stupidity and pig ignorance.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 10:02 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
It depends on who you ask, what polls etc.
I think that's how it is, and it's kind of a tradition.

I was in England and Scotland for the first time almost 60 years ago.
And even then I noticed that the Scots were somehow more 'EU-friendly' while the English went more 'overseas' to the continent for holidays.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 10:12 am
@izzythepush,
Well, I also think it's because the Remain team didn't do a good job of explaining the fallout from exiting. Had people been told of all these problems at the time, I doubt Brexit would have won. I remember reading opinion pieces about the crap job Remain did at the time. From what I understood, the older generation wanted out while the younger wanted in - mobility for work, etc. I read that the older folks were unhappy that the EU made a lot of decisions for the UK (and the rest of the EU countries) that went against their POV. Is that correct?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 10:28 am
@Mame,
To a degree. The Red tops, Sun, Mail and Express all favoured leaving and had been running anti eu stories for years before the referendum and this only picked up after it was announced.

Reamain was on the back foot from the start.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 10:35 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
Well, I also think it's because the Remain team didn't do a good job of explaining the fallout from exiting. Had people been told of all these problems at the time, I doubt Brexit would have won.
The Brexiteers' arguments were more striking, reinforced by the headlines of certain tabloids. (I recall the "crazy EU laws about vacuum cleaners and bananas" - the UK government actively supported the measures and, like every member state, could have blocked them if it wanted to; with the bananas, they were not banned under the regulation, but the new rules were requested by industry ... and the UK)
Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The Brexiteers' arguments were more striking, reinforced by the headlines of certain tabloids. (I recall the "crazy EU laws about vacuum cleaners and bananas" - the UK government actively supported the measures and, like every member state, could have blocked them if it wanted to; with the bananas, they were not banned under the regulation, but the new rules were requested by industry ... and the UK)

Yes, that's what izzy was saying about the media. I don't recall the bananas and vacuum cleaners - I'll have to check that out. Thanks Walter. You're just a fount of information. How do you keep it all in your head??
Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:10 am
Here's an article - sounds like Boris was winding everyone up!

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/about-brexit-and-eu-ban-on-bananas-kettles-and-vacuum-cleaners-1409048

Exaggerated claims.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:12 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
How do you keep it all in your head??
A had had a discussion about the bananas and vacuum cleaners with quite a few British citizens (and more Germans, too).
Otherwise, I use the internet if I'm not quite sure Wink
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:12 am
@Mame,
According to the tabloids the EU made certain bananas illegal, either straight or curley I can't remember which.

It was all lies.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:15 am
@izzythepush,
The BBC has a report about all this - " Last Updated: Friday, 23 March 2007"
Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
From that article:

No attempt is made to define "abnormal curvature" in the case of bananas, which must lead to lots of arguments. Contrast the case of cucumbers (Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1677/88), where Class I and "Extra class" cucumbers are allowed a bend of 10mm per 10cm of length. Class II cucumbers can bend twice as much.

How idiotic is this? 10mm per 10 cm of length? Why, in heaven's name?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 11:58 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
How idiotic is this? 10mm per 10 cm of length? Why, in heaven's name?
The people - "consumers" and the producers (perhaps the reverse order is more correct) - wanted it that way.

In the meantime, there has been a change in thinking, but selling 'crooked cucumbers' does not always work well, even with a significant price reduction.
Ditto for all other vegetables and fruit (except organic).
Mame
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 12:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
That's just nuts. I'd eat a crooked cuke from my back yard and would have no problem buying one. Just can't believe there are rules about this! Buyers should be the determinants, not government.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 01:42 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
Buyers should be the determinants, not government.
They are!! But they - at least the overwhelming majority - just want 'Class 1a' stuff.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 15 Jun, 2022 02:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Years ago I was in the Southampton vegetable co op, (which no longer exists.)

An old woman asked about cucumbers, all they had were Dutch cucumbers which were a bit smaller and greener than what she was used to.

From the look on her face you would have thought she'd been asked to eat a goat's head.

Back then lot of old people turned their noess up at "foreign" food, but with cucumbers? Something slightly different from what she was used to seems more than a bit extreme.
Mame
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jun, 2022 07:08 am
@izzythepush,
Fussy, fussy.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jun, 2022 02:41 am
EU drafting legislation to prepare for ‘doomsday’ Protocol legislation
Quote:
The EU has drafted legislation that aims to strengthen the bloc’s hand in taking action against the UK over possible breaches of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement and EU-UK trade deal.

It comes weeks after the UK tabled legislation to give ministers powers to override elements of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which was jointly agreed by the UK and EU as part of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement to keep the Irish land border free-flowing.

Fine Gael MEP for Ireland South Seán Kelly has been appointed lead author in finalising the draft legislation, which looks at the measures contained in the post-Brexit trade deal on what retaliatory action can be taken if one side does not adhere to its obligations.

“So basically, we will put on the table the steps that will be taken if they continue down this path, and giving the opportunity to the Commission on how to do it,” he told the PA news agency.

“They will see that there’s no messing here, we’re not bluffing, that once you cross the rubicon, there are consequences."

Mr Kelly said the UK under Boris Johnson has become “an unreliable diplomatic partner”, and that the EU needs the appropriate tools to protect itself.

“The UK is not coming to the table and they’re playing games for political reasons.

“They’re pretending they can solve everything and it’s no big deal, and they can break international law and it’s no big deal, and they can ignore the result of the Northern Ireland Assembly elections where a majority were in favour of the protocol and it’s no big deal.

“I would hope and I almost believe that the UK would pull back from the brink.”

He said that negotiations about red and green lanes would follow if the UK did pull back from tabling legislation that seeks to change the Northern Ireland Protocol.

When asked whether the EU expected this unilateral response from the UK after years of fraught Brexit negotiations, Mr Kelly said: “You were kind of… but you were thinking that it was a bit too extreme for a responsible government to break its own word.”

“‘Take back control’ was a wonderful phrase that meant nothing,” Mr Kelly added.

The draft regulation establishes rules and procedures to govern the EU rights under both Brexit agreements, which if triggered if may result in the suspension of certain obligations under the agreement concerned.

“If there are breaches to the agreed trading conditions, with this regulation the Commission will have the power to impose restrictions on trade, investment or other activities falling within the scope of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.”

“The bill in the House of Commons has to go through two or three hearings and they could take ages, so we’ll be finalised in plenty of time if the doomsday scenario transpires, and they’ll know where we stand.”

The European Council and European Parliament would then have to approve the actions that are to be taken.

Mr Kelly said that this would prevent a further “gaffe” when the European Commission controversially suggested in early 2021 that Article 16 of the Protocol could be triggered in response to a row with the UK about Covid-19 vaccine supplies.

“So that won’t happen on this occasion, everything will be above board, according to the treaties,” he said.

When asked whether reports of an EU ‘hit list’ of tariffs that would hurt Boris Johnson in key constituencies, Mr Kelly said that he hadn’t heard of that.

“I doubt very much if that would be the way, [tariffs] would have to be all-embracing, they would have to be dealt with equally.

“I’d say it would be hard to do and it would be maybe a little bit petty too perhaps, at this point.”

When the draft legislation is finalised in the coming weeks, the European Parliament’s report on the new regulation will be presented for vote at committee before progressing to a full plenary vote.
Builder
 
  -2  
Sun 19 Jun, 2022 02:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Paranoia and bullish standover tactics.
 

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