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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 07:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Bunch of quitters!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 03:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
So there really would beno negative consequences to changing their collective ind then. I agree that the Tories are unlikely to show any sense, any time soon.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You mean all that the UK has to do to get themselves out of this mess is have a national referendum that says, "On second thought, we changed our mind"?

Maybe that's what May has been doing all along-frittering away time so virtually no agreement is in place, they'll be no rational alternative but to remain in. She never wanted the Brexit in the first place, now that all the time to prepare to leave smoothly is almost gone, the whole country will jump at the chance to stay in and avoid a colossol economic mess.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:49 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
You mean all that the UK has to do to get themselves out of this mess is have a national referendum that says, "On second thought, we changed our mind"?
Yes.
But there will be a lot of "buts".
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:15 am
One of the main "buts" is that absent either a new referendum or the Tories sticking their necks out, it will occur at the end of March next year. Tories with a personal interest in this fiasco will not, absent an electoral threat, change their minds. Unless May suffers a vote of no confidence, or fails to pass a budget, she's in office until 2022.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:28 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Unless May suffers a vote of no confidence, or fails to pass a budget, she's in office until 2022.
Indeed.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 03:43 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
You mean all that the UK has to do to get themselves out of this mess is have a national referendum that says, "On second thought, we changed our mind"?

Of course. Why would other EU countries punish them, and for what exactly? Having come to their senses?

However, if the UK exit their brexit, they would have to work hard to rebuild their credibility within Europe. They won't be able to sport their usual superior, entitled attitude anymore; they'd come back in as beggers... Swallowing their national pride would be more than enough punishment for them.

It would also be educational: the EU is not just about making money. It's primarily about being good neighbours, team spirit, and helping each other out rather than hating one another... It's about going beyond narrow-minded nationalism.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 05:13 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Pro-EU campaigners seeking to establish legally that Britain alone could stop the Brexit process took an appeal to Scotland’s top court on Wednesday.

They want judges to ask the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to clarify whether Britain could choose to remain in the world’s biggest trading bloc without permission from the other 27 members. That would require Britain’s parliament to first decide that the final Brexit deal, if and when it is reached, was not good enough.

The case is of renewed relevance as the Conservative government works against the clock to reach agreement with Brussels on the terms of its departure ahead of the March 2019 departure date.

The possibility of Brexit happening without an agreement has pummelled the value of sterling on foreign exchange markets, and the government says it has stepped up planning for that possibility.

The Edinburgh Court of Session hearing, backed by British and Scottish MPs, is an appeal against a June ruling. Judges then said they could not refer the matter to the ECJ because Britain had not decided to overturn Brexit, and the case was therefore hypothetical.

The Scottish court’s decision, which can be appealed at the Supreme Court in London, will be announced in the coming weeks, a court spokesman said.

Knowing whether Article 50, the part of the European Treaty which triggers a member state leaving, can be reversed is essential to keeping Britain’s options open, said Jo Maugham, a lawyer supporting this and other legal challenges to Brexit.

“This case - if it succeeds - means that when parliament looks again it will know whether we can just withdraw the Article 50 notice and keep all the opt-outs we presently enjoy,” he said.

“(We) will have the option of treating Brexit as just a bad dream.”

The British government has argued that the question of whether Britain could unilaterally stop Brexit is irrelevant because the will of the voters was made clear in the 2016 referendum and ministers will not reverse the decision.

However, with increasing worries that Brussels and London will not reach a deal in time, a recent poll found 45 percent of voters supported holding a new referendum whatever the outcome of talks with the EU, while 34 percent opposed it.

Prime Minister Theresa May has repeatedly ruled out another vote on Brexit, saying the public made their decision when they voted 51.9 percent to leave and 48.1 percent to stay in 2016.
reuters
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 10:29 am
UK's richest man and ardent Brexiteer is moving to Monaco

Billionaire said Britain would be 'perfectly successful' outside of the EU, but is now opting to leave

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s wealthiest man and a key Brexitbacker, has decided to leave the UK and livse in Monaco.

Despite his previous claims that the UK would be “perfectly successful” outside of the European Union (EU), the billionaire has chosen to leave the country of his birth and move to the principality, whose residents do not pay income tax, on the Mediterranean coast. 

Sir Jim, founder and CEO of the chemicals giant Ineos, was named as the richest man in Britain in this year’s Sunday Times rich list, with an estimated fortune of £21bn.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jim-ratcliffe-brexit-uk-richest-man-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 11:13 am
@Olivier5,
I wonder, if the EU-leavers know this:
Quote:
The Principality of Monaco is a third country with respect to the European Union. The Monegasque state nonetheless established a permanent relationship with the EU by accrediting an Ambassador to Brussels in 1999.

Moreover, given its customs union with France the Principality has been part of the Community customs territory since 1968.

In addition, the Franco-Monegasque agreements signed on 18 May 1963 and 26 May 2003 stipulate that Value Added Tax is assessed and collected in Monaco on the[...]

naco is part of the European VAT system.

The Principality of Monaco also belongs to the Eurozone. [...]

Furthermore, the Principality of Monaco is not a signatory to the Schengen Agreements, but it is a port of entry into Europe as a result of the maritime and air access to the country, and the free movement that is in place between France and Monaco. [...]

The Principality of Monaco has also concluded sectoral agreements with the European Union. [...]

Like the other small third-country nations in Europe, Monaco conducted negotiations with the European Community to reach an agreement setting out measures equivalent to those covered in Council Directive 2003/48/EC on taxation of savings income in the form of interest payments. This agreement, signed on 7 December 2004, entered into force on 1st July 2005.
[...]
... ... ...
Gouvernement Princier Principauté de Monaco
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 11:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
So if they move to Monaco they get taxed on savings income, (you mean interest on bank accounts?), but not on wages or profits? Probably not too many people moving to Monaco working for wages anyway.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 12:15 pm
@Blickers,
Monaco is popularly known as the tax haven, you don't pay income tax there - dodging from one's own country’s taxes is quite popular among the rich.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 02:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Les aristocrates à la lanterne !
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 15 Aug, 2018 02:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Despite his previous claims that the UK would be “perfectly successful” outside of the European Union (EU), the billionaire has chosen to leave the country of his birth and move to the principality, whose residents do not pay income tax, on the Mediterranean coast. 


Journalists are no literary lions to begin with, but this reads as though the tax break accrues to those who live on the Mediterranean coast. I give the author and The Independent editors a fail on this one.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 02:10 am
One of the world's largest ratings agencies on Brexit: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Will Martin Aug 16, 2018, 9:58 AM ETAly Weisman/Business Insider

Fitch, one of the "Big Three" credit ratings agencies, believes Brexit is now too complicated to call.It has removed its base case, because "there is such a wide range of potential Brexit outcomes that no individual scenario has a high probability."The ratings agency also believes that the possibility of a no deal Brexit is rising.


LONDON - Fitch, one of the "Big Three" credit ratings agencies, now believes that the manner of the UK's exit from the European Union is now so unclear that it is impossible to forecast. [...]

"We no longer believe it is appropriate to identify a specific base case," the agency said in a statement.

"An intensification of political divisions within the UK and slow progress in negotiations with the EU means there is such a wide range of potential Brexit outcomes that no individual scenario has a high probability," it added.

Previously, Fitch identified a scenario in which the UK leaves the EU in March next year with "a transition period until around December 2020 and a framework for a future Free-Trade Agreement" as its base case, but it now says that it "no longer ranks as significantly more likely than other possible outcomes." [...]

Fitch said that an "acrimonious and disruptive no deal Brexit is a material and growing possibility."

The agency warned that no deal would be a huge negative for the UK, saying that it would "substantially disrupt" trade and the economy.

"No deal is also a material possibility. This would substantially disrupt customs, trade and economic activity, with the depth of disruption depending on how quickly a 'bare bones' deal could be reached," the statement said.

As a result of these warnings, Fitch reaffirmed its negative outlook on the UK's sovereign debt, saying that it could downgrade the UK's credit rating in the event of a no deal Brexit.

"An outcome that adversely affected growth prospects could lead to a downgrade, as we said when we affirmed the rating in April," the agency said.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/brexit-is-impossible-to-call-fitch-ratings-says-2018-8
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 10:48 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Nigel Farage has announced he is going "back on the road" to campaign against the prime minister's Brexit plan.

Writing for the Daily Telegraph, the UKIP MEP said Theresa May's Chequers agreement was a "sell-out" because it included regulatory alignment with the European Union.

He added he would join Eurosceptic group Leave Means Leave at a series of public events across the UK.

The 54-year-old said a "battlebus" had already been hired.

Mr Farage's return is another potential headache for Mrs May who is already facing bitter opposition to her proposals from sections of the Conservative Party.
BBC
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 18 Aug, 2018 05:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Guardian: No-deal Brexit may force rethink of vote - ex-civil service head
Quote:
Impact would be so grave UK would have to review decision to leave EU, says Bob Kerslake

Britain may have to rethink the decision to leave the EU if the government is unable to strike a Brexit deal with Brussels, a former head of the civil service has said.

Bob Kerslake said the consequences of a no-deal exit would be so serious that the UK parliament would have to consider whether it could allow it to go ahead.

Lord Kerslake, who has been advising Labour on preparing for government, said that at the very least the article 50 process – under which the UK is set to leave the bloc on 29 March next year – would have to be paused.

In those circumstances, the European commission would almost certainly insist on some “re-examination” of the original decision to leave, he said.

... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 18 Aug, 2018 06:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 18 Aug, 2018 08:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Great video, looking forward to Part Deux where the outline Putin's involvement in this.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 18 Aug, 2018 08:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote BBC:
Quote:
Writing for the Daily Telegraph, the UKIP MEP [Nigel Farage] said Theresa May's Chequers agreement was a "sell-out" because it included regulatory alignment with the European Union.

He added he would join Eurosceptic group Leave Means Leave at a series of public events across the UK.

The 54-year-old said a "battlebus" had already been hired.

Mr Farage's return is another potential headache for Mrs May who is already facing bitter opposition to her proposals from sections of the Conservative Party.

It might be time to consider that idea that May might be handling this brilliantly. She voted Remain, had to switch sides on Brexit because she's a Conservative, but has presided over a process that has totally wasted ¾ of the time to prepare for an exit with minimum setback to the UK economy. No end to the time wastage is in sight, so big economic logjams and setbacks loom ever larger.

The first reaction might be to regard her as incompetent, but ask yourself: Could anyone have brought the UK to the point where they must go back on Brexit more efficiently if they tried?
 

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