47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 5 Dec, 2017 12:05 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
I'm not sure why a political party, which is an entity formed to get people elected to public office in one particular country, needs to communicate with heads of state of other countries.


The reality is that it does happen. Not just in this one example. It's not a rarity.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Dec, 2017 01:12 pm
@ehBeth,
Theresa May's hopes of rescuing EU negotiations hit fresh setback as DUP talks are delayed.
The PM had expected to speak to Arlene Foster by telephone to convince her and the DUP, they has nothing to fear over trading rules to avoid a hard Irish border.
But, after twice telling journalists the call would take place today, No 10 was forced to admit later that it did not know when the crucial conversation would go ahead.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Dec, 2017 01:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Arlene Foster, the DUP leader, has said news of a potential agreement between the UK and the EU on the issue of the Irish border came as a "big shock" to her party, which is propping up Theresa May in Parliament.

A potential agreement between London and Brussels that would have seen Northern Ireland retain "regulatory alignment" with the EU after Brexit fell apart on Monday after the DUP refused to give its backing to the proposal.

Ms May is reliant on the party's support after losing her parliamentary majority in June's general election.

Ms Foster said she had been asking for information on the issue for five weeks but had only received news of the planned arrangement on Monday morning.

She claimed British negotiators told her the Irish Government had insisted her party was not given advance notice of the text of the agreement.

"We are told the Irish government prevented it coming to us," she said.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 02:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Katy Hayward, a reader in sociology at Queen’s University Belfast, wrote a study into the views of local communities in the border region of Ireland and Northern Ireland:
Bordering on Brexit (pdf)

Her opinion in The Guardian:
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 05:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Correcting the above missing link
Her opinion in The Guardian: The DUP was painted into a corner by Brexiters’ hyperbole, but a solution is possible
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 06:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The secretary of state’s blustering over the impact assessments reveals one thing: the whole of the government’s Brexit strategy is built on lies and obfuscation

David Davis is bluffing on Brexit. And now it’s clear for all to see
Quote:
[...]
A decision was made last summer to define Brexit as a requirement to leave the single market and the customs union – an action that would quite obviously have enormous consequences for the UK’s economy – and the secretary of state notionally responsible for enacting that decision at no point set about the task of rigorously investigating what those consequences might be.

And whatever half-baked understanding he had of the issues was not one he ever intended to share with MPs or the British people. He still has no intention of sharing it. Whether that is a case of cynical, ideologically-motivated subterfuge, laziness, stupidity or some psychological aversion to the confrontation of difficult things only Davis himself can know for sure.

It is revealing, too, how heavily Davis relies on the assertion that vital data had to be kept secret lest it fall into the hands of the European commission and inform its negotiating stance. The inference here is that there might be things about the whole Brexit process that the ingenious UK side has thought of but the dull-witted Europeans haven’t thought of yet. The process of the talks so far at every turn has demonstrated the opposite to be true. The pattern has been Europeans flagging up problems well in advance and British politicians denying the existence of those problems, then failing to address them with practical solutions.

But a deeper subtext to the Davis argument (one he might not even consciously know) is that it would be a mistake to let the EU know what the UK’s judgment of Brexit’s impact on the domestic economy would be because the impact is so harsh. In other words, if the commission knew that the UK is actually afraid to go through with some of the harder Brexit plans promoted by Theresa May, the talks become a dictation of the terms of surrender. That is indeed the way things have played out so far. The great fear of exposing the government’s hand flows from the relative weakness of the cards it holds.

The bluffer fears being called. Of course, the EU side has understood the relative strengths and weaknesses of the UK position for longer and far better than May or Davis. The prime minister and her secretary of state have been kidding themselves. To sustain the delusion, they have tried to avoid scrutiny in parliament and, by extension, deceive the British public. Is the whole of the government’s Brexit strategy built on lies and obfuscation? Well that depends on what your meaning of the word “is” is.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 07:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Fortunately, there's this site:
http://www.brexitrecord.com
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 07:55 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Theresa May says she will not explain how the UK will prevent a hard Irish border until later in the Brexit negotiations – despite facing an EU deadline to do so by the end of the week.

The Prime Minister faced Labour taunts that her strategy was a “shambles’ after the collapse of her hopes of a breakthrough deal on Monday, when the Democratic Unionist Party vetoed her plan.

It leaves Ms May with just days to convince EU leaders that a hard border - with customs checks and posts – can be avoided, in order to move the talks on to future trade.

But, she told MPs: “To those Labour members who shout how – that’s the whole point of the second phase of the negotiations.

“Because we will deliver this – we aim to deliver this – as part of our overall trade deal between the United Kingdom and the European Union

“And we can only talk about that when we get into phase two.”

The comments are likely to alarm the Irish Government, which believes it has full Brussels backing in demanding an immediate - written – guarantee there will be no hard border.

They came as Ms May finally held her delayed telephone call with Arlene Foster, the DUP leader, but Ms Foster is not expected to travel to London for face-to-face talks.

DUP sources suggested an agreement was still a long way off, while Ms Foster told the Belfast Telegraph she wanted to be “at the table” when the Brexit talks discuss Northern Ireland.
... ... ...
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 08:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
They came as Ms May finally held her delayed telephone call with Arlene Foster, the DUP leader, but Ms Foster is not expected to travel to London for face-to-face talks.

DUP sources suggested an agreement was still a long way off, while Ms Foster told the Belfast Telegraph she wanted to be “at the table” when the Brexit talks discuss Northern Ireland.


Theresa May phone call with Arlene Foster 'constructive' says No. 10

DUP leader Foster: We want a seat at Brexit talks table
Quote:
[...]
Asked what had gone so dramatically wrong on Monday in Brussels, Mrs Foster said: "If we had been involved directly in the process, in the room, I don't think we would have arrived at such a stark situation.

"I think there are lessons to be learned from that.

"If civil servants are working through particular scenarios and are looking at texts, I do think that when they're talking about Northern Ireland it would be useful if we were directly involved.

"I'm not demanding that we have to be in the room for everything but there is a need for us to be directly involved."

Mrs Foster said was a "big shock" to her party when it saw the text of the deal the British Government had agreed with the EU on Monday.

The DUP was shown the text "late morning" despite having asked to see a draft for five weeks.

"I am a great believer in seeing things on paper rather than being briefed about things," Mrs Foster said.

She claimed the London negotiating team had indicated to her that it was the Irish Government which had stopped the DUP from being shown a copy of the text.

Dublin has rejected her claim and said it "had no involvement in any decision on which documents should go to the DUP".

Mrs Foster said she didn't want to get into a "he said, she said" situation over the matter.

Once the DUP saw the deal text, it knew it was unacceptable because the party would never agree to a border developing in the Irish Sea.

When asked if Theresa May was on a solo run with the proposal or was acting with the support of cabinet ministers, Mrs Foster said: "I don't know the answer to that.

"All I know is that they were very aware of where we were in relation to this.

"The Union doesn't just matter to the DUP, it matters to a lot of backbench Tories as well."

She had a 25-minute conversation with Mrs May on Monday was an "open and honest" one in which she told the Prime Minister that the situation could have been handled very differently.

Mrs Foster said she would speak to Mrs May again today or later in the week but had no immediate plans to travel to London for a face-to-face meeting with her.

She said her Westminster colleagues were in constant contact with the Government.

"What's important is to focus on moving the situation forward," she stated.

"We're trying to find a solution.

"We need to get moving to phase two so we can get into the detail of the trade negotiations."

The DUP leader insisted her party supported strong North-South trade and didn't want a hard border.

"Let's get into the detail so we end up with a solution that works for everybody," she added.

The DUP is not opposed to regulatory alignment in certain areas and she pointed to the single energy market that Northern Ireland has with the Republic.

Mrs Foster expressed disappointment at the "change in tone" from the Irish Government recently.

"I know Leo. I have said to him in the past that I count him as a friend," she said.

"But I don't understand the tone and approach that his government are taking towards Northern Ireland because it's not the tone and approach that Enda Kenny or Charlie Flanagan were taking."

She claimed Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin had struck a much more conciliatory tone yesterday.

"I am trying to understand why Fine Gael has taken up this approach," said Mrs Foster.

"It's almost as if they are taking a Sinn Fein line on all of this.

"One has to ask the question is that because there is an election coming, probably in the new year.

"Domestic issues are bleeding over into Brexit."
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 08:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Philip Hammond has contradicted hard Brexit supporting Tory MPs by warning the UK will pay its £50bn-odd EU “divorce bill” even if no trade deal is struck.

The Chancellor said it was “inconceivable that we would walk away from obligations”, regardless of the success or failure of the final negotiations.

“That would not make us credible partner for future international agreements,” he told the Commons Treasury Select Committee.

The stance will alarm Tory MPs who believed they had won a guarantee from Theresa May that tens of billions would only be handed over if a trade deal follows.

Mr Hammond also confirmed that the Cabinet had not agreed, or even discussed, an “end state” for what it hopes to achieve when trade talks finally begin with Brussels.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2017 02:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Theresa May slaps down Philip Hammond over payment of £45bn divorce bill in fresh cabinet split
Quote:
Theresa May has been forced to slap down her Chancellor after he claimed the £45bn Brexit divorce bill will be paid even if no EU trade deal is struck, opening up a fresh cabinet split.

The Prime Minister sided with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, who only signed up to handing over the huge sum if Brussels delivers a favourable trade agreement in return.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 06:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit: UK fails to retain voice in European court of justice
Quote:
Theresa May had wanted to keep a British advocate general in return for ECJ retaining role in UK on citizens’ rights
[...]
Smaller member states wait years for their nationals to take senior positions in the court, and EU diplomats had been appalled at the idea of a non-member state being given special dispensation. Even the suggestion was regarded as an indication of the British government’s belief in its “exceptionalism”.
[...]
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 06:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Theresa May to announce new Northern Ireland border proposals as Gove faces Commons questions
Quote:
Theresa May is facing a race against time to make progress in Brexit talks amid a deadlock over the Irish border.

The Prime Minister is hoping to make a new offer by Friday to satisfy both the Republic of Ireland and the Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, which props up her government and scuppered a deal on divorce issues this week.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 02:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Theresa May edges closer to deal with DUP over post-Brexit Irish border
Quote:
Theresa May edged closer to a deal with the Democratic Unionist party over the Irish border, as the EU warned she only had until midnight on Sunday to salvage the agreement or face a long delay in starting Brexit trade talks.

The prime minister was ready to jump on a plane to Brussels for discussions as soon as new wording had been approved by the DUP, amid growing anxiety about securing a deal in time for next week’s European council.

Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, and the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, had cleared their schedules for a late meal with May on Thursday night.

However, the prime minister would not commit to travelling until she had a firm agreement nailed down with the DUP, after the party unexpectedly vetoed the first proposal on Monday over fears it would give Northern Ireland a different Brexit deal to the rest of the UK.


UK has 48 hours to agree potential Brexit deal or talks cannot progress
Read more
As the clock ticked down, Tusk said he would be giving a statement on the situation at 6.50am on Friday – before the stock exchange opened – prompting speculation that he was about to pass on information that could affect the markets.
... ... ...
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 02:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
you just know this isn't going to work for Ms. May long term

she might as well break things off when it's her choice
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 02:47 pm
@ehBeth,
May’s Europe advisor Olly Robbins has been in constant contact with Sabine Weyand, who works for the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier, to agree the final wording of the settlement – specifically around the vexed issue of what will happen to the Irish border.
Members of the European Parliament are due to meet tomorrow to discuss the matter, the announced statement of Tusk tomorrow morning ... it really could be that May is on the brink of a new Brexit deal with the EU. And DUP.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
So an early morning started in Brussels just now (7 am local time), after May had had overnight talks to seal an agreement on the Irish border.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 12:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/tw5ZiFF.jpg
Screenshot ITV news
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 12:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/TnrviHz.jpg


Theresa May and the EU have announced that a breakthrough deal has finally been reached to move the Brexit talks onto future trade with the EU, after days of tortuous negotiations.
And the European Commission announced that "sufficient progress" had been made on all three so-called "divorce issues" – which seems to mean that it also includes a financial settlement and EU citizens’ rights.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 02:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Here is the full text of Donald Tusk’s speech:

This morning, I received the confirmation from our negotiators that sufficient progress has been made. This allows me to present the draft guidelines for the December European Council, which I have just sent to the leaders. My proposals are the following.
First, we should start negotiating the transition period, so that people and businesses have clarity about their situation. As you know, the UK has asked for a transition of about two years, while remaining part of the Single Market and Customs Union. And we will be ready to discuss this, but naturally, we have our conditions. I propose that during this period, the UK will respect:
the whole of EU law, including new law;
it will respect budgetary commitments;
it will respect judicial oversight;
and of course, all the related obligations.
Clearly, within the transition period following the UK’s withdrawal, EU decision-making will continue among the 27 member states, without the UK.
All of what I have said seems to be the only reasonable solution, and it is in the interest of all our citizens that it is agreed as soon as possible. This is why I will ask the EU leaders to mandate our negotiator to start these talks immediately.
Second, we want to begin discussions with the UK in order to explore the British vision of its future relationship with the EU. So far, we have heard a number of various ideas. We need more clarity on how the UK sees our future relations, after it has left the Single Market and Customs Union. I therefore propose to mandate our negotiator to start exploratory talks with our British friends about this problem. On our side, we are ready to start preparing a close EU-UK partnership in trade, but also in the fight against terrorism and international crime as well as security, defence and foreign policy. For this to happen, the European Council will have to adopt additional guidelines next year.
While being satisfied with today’s agreement, which is obviously the personal success of Prime Minister Theresa May, let us remember that the most difficult challenge is still ahead. We all know that breaking up is hard. But breaking up and building a new relation is much harder. Since the Brexit referendum, a year and a half has passed. So much time has been devoted to the easier part of the task. And now, to negotiate a transition arrangement and the framework for our future relationship, we have de facto less than a year. Thank you

(Via The Guardian)
 

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