5
   

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts”?

 
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 01:57 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm not going to start that all over again in this thread, Max. I'll paste your comment in that thread and respond to it.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 02:05 pm
@layman,
My claims on this thread and on that other thread are consistent.

Science is based on mathematics and experiment,. Given mathematics and experiment there is a correct answer. This correct answer is taught in Physics programs in colleges and is used as the base of our technology.

Feynman taught the correct scientific answer, including Special Relativity, as established by mathematics and experiment. Feynman points out that there are many things that we don't know, but there are also things that we do know. Special relativity is one of the things that we do know. And Feynman taught it as established science.

Feynman is one of my personal role models and has been since I was a Physics student. My understanding of Physics, both the practice of science and the philosophical role of Physics in understanding nature, are influenced by Feynman's views.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 02:42 pm
@maxdancona,
I have responded here, Max.

http://able2know.org/topic/301703-26#post-6090858
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 03:17 pm
@layman,
Fine, I will go back to that disastrous thread for a minute.

I think it is relevant here, because this is thread about Feynman. Feynman disagreed with you about science in general, and about Special Relativity in particular. And besides, you called me to this thread by name with your misunderstanding of Feynman.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 03:39 pm
@maxdancona,
I don't think you understand Feynman's points very well, and you didn't represent my positions accurately, either. But, like I said, I'm not going to try to get into that here.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 04:03 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

1) Does “Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts” mean "“Science is the belief that experts are ignorant”?

2) Does "it is difficult to get across a real feeling as to the beauty" mean "it is difficult to catch/enjoy a real feeling about the beauty"?

Context:

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”
―Richard Feynman

“To those who do not know mathematics it is difficult to get across a real feeling as to the beauty, the deepest beauty, of nature... If you want to

learn about nature, to appreciate nature, it is necessary to understand the language that she speaks in.”
―Richard Feynman


All true indeed, but lacking I dare say.

We do believe in science ability to unravel more questions build upon very short, very narrow, answers...it is the "keep questioning" that makes science worth it.

..and yet all is TRUTH, when what is true is not to be directed, and nothing is false when one does not ask were it fits...

Knowledge requires information on where truths fit...while Truth, well...true Truth, is just existence ! Its there, always !
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:35 pm
Does "I have one, so I know that I don't know" mean "I have one way, and this one way is that I don't know how to teach science to small kids"?

Context:
Quote:
The subject "What Is Science" is not my choice. It was Mr. DeRose's subject. But I would like to say that I think that "what is science" is not at all equivalent to "how to teach science," and I must call that to your attention for two reasons. In the first place, from the way that I am preparing to give this lecture, it may seem that I am trying to tell you how to teach science--I am not at all in any way, because I don't know anything about small children. I have one, so I know that I don't know. The other is I think that most of you (because there is so much talk and so many papers and so many experts in the field) have some kind of a feeling of lack of self-confidence. In some way you are always being lectured on how things are not going too well and how you should learn to teach better. I am not going to berate you for the bad work you are doing and indicate how it can definitely be improved; that is not my intention.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:37 pm
@oristarA,
'I have a small child, so I know that I don't know how to teach science to them.'
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:48 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

'I have a small child, so I know that I don't know how to teach science to them.'

Thanks.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:52 pm
The speaker went on:

Quote:
As a matter of fact, we have very good students coming into Caltech, and during the years we found them getting better and better. Now how it is done, I don't know. I wonder if you know. I don't want to interfere with the system; it is very good.


Does "the system" refer to "Caltech education system"?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:01 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

'I have a small child, so I know that I don't know how to teach science to them.'


Ironically, I failed to get the meaning of another "one" below:
"we had one"? "we had one course in elementary quantum mechanics"?
Quote:
Only two days ago we had a conference in which we decided that we don't have to teach a course in elementary quantum mechanics in the graduate school any more. When I was a student, they didn't even have a course in quantum mechanics in the graduate school; it was considered too difficult a subject. When I first started to teach, we had one. Now we teach it to undergraduates. We discover now that we don't have to have elementary quantum mechanics for graduates from other schools. Why is it getting pushed down? Because we are able to teach better in the university, and that is because the students coming up are better trained.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:02 pm
@oristarA,
Students coming into Caltech would be freshmen, so the system he's referring to would be the educational system that they experience prior to that. Elementary, middle and high school science classes.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:11 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

FBM wrote:

'I have a small child, so I know that I don't know how to teach science to them.'


Ironically, I failed to get the meaning of another "one" below:
"we had one"? "we had one course in elementary quantum mechanics"?
Quote:
Only two days ago we had a conference in which we decided that we don't have to teach a course in elementary quantum mechanics in the graduate school any more. When I was a student, they didn't even have a course in quantum mechanics in the graduate school; it was considered too difficult a subject. When I first started to teach, we had one. Now we teach it to undergraduates. We discover now that we don't have to have elementary quantum mechanics for graduates from other schools. Why is it getting pushed down? Because we are able to teach better in the university, and that is because the students coming up are better trained.



The antecedent to the pronoun is "a course in quantum mechanics."
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:55 pm
Cool.
In the context, does "why is it getting pushed down" refer to "why is the course getting pushed down from graduate school to undergraduate school"?
Quote:
Why is it getting pushed down? Because we are able to teach better in the university, and that is because the students coming up are better trained.
layman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:57 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
In the context, does "why is it getting pushed down" refer to "why is the course getting pushed down from graduate school to undergraduate school"?


Yeah, that's what it means, Oris. And then he gives you the answer.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 12:03 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Cool.
In the context, does "why is it getting pushed down" refer to "why is the course getting pushed down from graduate school to undergraduate school"?
Quote:
Why is it getting pushed down? Because we are able to teach better in the university, and that is because the students coming up are better trained.



Yep.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 12:06 am
The speaker went on:

Quote:
After some time, I was reminded of a little poem:

A centipede was happy quite, until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?"
This raised his doubts to such a pitch
He fell distracted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

All my life, I have been doing science and known what it was, but what I have come to tell you--which foot comes after which--I am unable to do, and furthermore, I am worried by the analogy in the poem that when I go home I will no longer be able to do any research.


Does "Not knowing how to run" refer to "losing his ability to run (at least for the time being)"?
That is, the centipede was tortured by the problem that he lost his ability of running temporarily. And the speaker would also be troubled as to losing his ability to research (for the time being)?
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 12:11 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

The speaker went on:

Quote:
After some time, I was reminded of a little poem:

A centipede was happy quite, until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?"
This raised his doubts to such a pitch
He fell distracted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

All my life, I have been doing science and known what it was, but what I have come to tell you--which foot comes after which--I am unable to do, and furthermore, I am worried by the analogy in the poem that when I go home I will no longer be able to do any research.


Does "Not knowing how to run" refer to "losing his ability to run (at least for the time being)"?
That is, the centipede was tortured by the problem that he lost his ability of running temporarily. And the speaker would also be troubled as to losing his ability to research (for the time being)?


Exactly. By teaching how to do science/research, he has to think about things that otherwise were automatic for him, which may put him into the same difficulty as the centipede.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 07:13 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Exactly. By teaching how to do science/research, he has to think about things that otherwise were automatic for him, which may put him into the same difficulty as the centipede.


Excellent.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 08:34 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:
In the context, does "why is it getting pushed down" refer to "why is the course getting pushed down from graduate school to undergraduate school"?


Yeah, that's what it means, Oris. And then he gives you the answer.


Thank you Lay.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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