Atlas Shrugged

Let me re-phrase than Craven. Until you read the book, I have no more desire to debate the subject with you than you do with me. But, I repeat my offer to send you a copy. :wink:

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I already have a copy that I have been reading selections from.

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Cool. Last time it came up, I didn't think you did. I wasn't being snotty. There is probably more to read by way excerpts, descriptions and paraphrases than there is in the book itself. I thought perhaps you were using online sources, which, forgive me, I think are all as tainted as the similar sources on the bible. As you know well there is a great deal in the bible that is seldom, if ever, discussed in your average church.

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From the book A Man in Full by Tom Wolfe*.

...a Web [i]site[/i]" -pronnounced [i]porn shop[/i]-"on the Internet. Now, the Internet is an uncontrollable medium and, in this case, an out-of-control medium. That anyone could make an item carried by a Web [i]site[/i] on the [i]Internet[/i]"-pronounced [i]porn shop[/i] in a [i]massage parlor[/i]-"the basis of a printed article is disturbing. The fact of the matter is that there [i]are[/i] no facts and there is no [i]matter[/i].

* Note: without the internet-pronnounced porn shop-this excerpt would not be brought here. Amazon.com's search within the book feature allows me to bring verbatim quotes from books I have read instantly, without which I'd have to go to a library, get the book and thumb through the whole damn thing looking for the specific quotes I remembered.

Many people denigrate the Internet-pronounced something I do not know how to use with the same proficiency as I do books-while touting books-pronounced beacons of wisdom-while not considering that the Internet can be a medium for perusal of books.

The internet is a medium.

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I use that feature for excerpts too. Between Amazon, Half and Abe there isn't much in the way of books you can't find... Some universities are now painstakingly creating digital copies of antique works that are without copyright to make them more available, too. While attempting to learn more about my 1896 30 Volume Library of the World's Best Literature I found one university has already finished the putting the first couple of volumes on line. Shocked

That leaves about 20,000 pages to go. Must be some lightning fast typing going on there. Smile

I think I'll always prefer to read the paper copies, though.

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Same here, I prefer hardcopy to read and digital for research (because of the speed).

If this isn't the project you referenced, check it out:

http://www.gutenberg.net/

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Then there's Questia - which has newish books - only I canna read a number of the work-related ones I REALLY want to - because of copyright agreement differences.

Now - THERE's a damned digression.

But non-work books, I want real copies of - cos reading at a computer is uncomfortable for me.

Work ones cost a fortune, so I will put up with more discomfort to read them on the net when I can.

Sorry - please return to normal programming.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Same here, I prefer hardcopy to read and digital for research (because of the speed).

If this isn't the project you referenced, check it out:

http://www.gutenberg.net/

That's the one. This page if you're curious. A fellow collector has a set copyrighted the same year (1896), only his has 45 Volumes that hold the exact same information verbatim and we can't seem to figure out why they would release the 2 versions like that simultaneously. (I know... I'm a nerd.)

I didn't know about Questia... I'll have to check that out. Thanks D. I usually hit print if a file looks much over 50 pages. (I know, waste of trees)

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Debra, ignore all these politically motivated reviews. The book is about the individual as hero, it doesn't have to be put into a political context to be a good read. I read it, and loved it, and it made me think. Read it. Trust me, it's worthwhile.

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That's rich, a politically motivated book whose political reviews should be ignored. Laughing

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All I'm saying is that you can read it and take it as a personal philosophy first (or even just a good read, if you really want to try to just enjoy it) before you get into all the political implications

To use a term you once used to describe me, which is for the most part accurate, I'm apolitical, and I enjoyed it immensely. You don't have to know an author's motivations to enjoy a well-written and well-thought out story.

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Kicky, it's hard to take you seriously when you calls it well-written. Most of the die-hard Rand fans I know wouldn't go so far as to say that.

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OB said:

"I didn't know about Questia... I'll have to check that out. Thanks D. I usually hit print if a file looks much over 50 pages. (I know, waste of trees) "

It is in the portal!

It is $19.50 or somesuch $US a month.

Worth it for me right now as i am researching so much stuff to teach - but its articles are not absolutely up to date, in my field, anyway - but still ok value.

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I wouldn't say it's well written, I'd say it's hit and miss. The message is consistent but the delivery varies between below average and extraordinary. Some of the quotes are unforgettable and have subsequently become timeless. The biggest complaint is that it wasn't condensed and at first I admit, I thought it would never end. But, by the time it did end, I had learned to like it so much I was sorry it did. That only happens to me with GREAT books.

Debra, listen to Kicky, not Craven. Sorry Craven, unless I'm off on the context of 'politically motivated', you haven't read enough of it yet. Did you know it was originally going to be titled "The Strike"? :wink:

Thanks again Dlowan. Btw I meant to say 20 pages... I waste many more trees than my previous admission accounts for. :wink:

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Kicky, it's hard to take you seriously when you calls it well-written. Most of the die-hard Rand fans I know wouldn't go so far as to say that.

Everybody's a critic. So now you're listening to all those Rand fans who you disagree with anyway? Laughing

I'd argue with you on this, but my fuzzy, blurry monitor only allows me about ten seconds of readable screen every fifteen minutes, so maybe tomorrow we'll have the debate about what "well-written" means. And by the way, I didn't "calls" it well-written. :wink:

We don't have to agree. Just as long as Debra doesn't ignore the main point of what I was saying, and reads the book!

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Yes I did Bill, and to say the books is not inherently and intentionally political is willful ignorance. It is her "philosophy for living on earth".

The book is more about Laissez-faire capitalism than anything else and is the Bible of anti-communists masses for a reason.

Wikipedia wrote:

Rand believed that independence flourishes to the extent that people are free, and that achievement is most highly rewarded when private property is strictly observed. She advocated laissez-faire capitalism as the political system she believed to be the most consistent with these beliefs. These considerations make Atlas Shrugged a highly political book, especially in its portrayal of socialism and communism as fundamentally flawed.

Leonard Peikoff, Ph.D.,?-Ayn Rand's longtime associate and intellectual heir in an interview:

Given her radical views in morality and politics, did she ever soften or compromise her message? Never. She took on the whole world?-liberals, conservatives, communists, religionists, Babbitts and avant-garde alike?-but opposition had no power to sway her from her convictions.

The official Ayn Rand institute is chock full of her politics.

Her publisher has this to say about the book:

Penguin Books wrote:

Atlas Shrugged (1957) was her greatest achievement and last work of fiction. In this novel she dramatizes her unique philosophy of Objectivism in an intellectual mystery story that integrates ethics, metaphysics, epistemology, politics, economics, and sex.

National Center for Policy Analysis credits Rand for the success of Capitalism itself to some extent here (though I think that's a bit of a stretch it does lend insight into the degree to which this is a political book).

Forty years ago this month, one of the most influential books in American history was published. "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand was a massive best-seller that continues to sell hundreds of thousands of copies yearly. Always popular on college campuses (among students, not faculty), Atlas sparked the origins of the modern libertarian movement in America.

I could go on and on, that was just a quick search.

It's simply absurd to deny that it's a political (comfortably right economic politics to be specific) book to the core, was intended as such and whose legacy is based predominantly on its political nature.

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kickycan wrote:

So now you're listening to all those Rand fans who you disagree with anyway?

Of course, how else would I know of the idiocy touted by the Rand fan club?

Quote:

I'd argue with you on this, but my fuzzy, blurry monitor only allows me about ten seconds of readable screen every fifteen minutes, so maybe tomorrow we'll have the debate about what "well-written" means. And by the way, I didn't "calls" it well-written. :wink:

kickycan wrote:

All I'm saying is that you can read it and take it as a personal philosophy first (or even just a good read, if you really want to try to just enjoy it) before you get into all the political implications

To use a term you once used to describe me, which is for the most part accurate, I'm apolitical, and I enjoyed it immensely. You don't have to know an author's motivations to enjoy a well-written and well-thought out story.

Either the monitor is not the only fuzzy thing in town or your comment I emphasised was a sudden departure from this book and was referencing something else.

Quote:

We don't have to agree.

Thank Jebus

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Blimey - I doubt even Rand claimed to be a good writer!

Nor would she, I think, ever have denied the political nature of her writing.

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And there in lies the problem with secondhand information, Craven. It matters little who defines mathematics for you. It matters a great deal who defines philosophy for you. Will you next do a web search to tell me if what I got out of the Bible is right or wrong? Rolling Eyes

And if it's different, tell me I am willfully ignorant? I continue to encourage Debra and I agree with Kicky that you need not consider politics at all to enjoy the book. Two people who have read the book agree on this, and the one who hasn't is suggesting willful ignorance. Laughing

Dlowan: Kicky didn't deny it was political. He said it could be enjoyed absent that consideration. Do you disagree?

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You are moving the goalposts Bill, I never said someone couldn't read the book while blissfully ignorant of the inherent political nature of the story.

I simply contended that the story is inherently political. Claims to the contrary are based on willful ignorance (and if in your case, politics as well).

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Atlas Shrugged

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