10
   

Judaism works all by itself. But Christianity and Islam both require Judaism.

 
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 06:17 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a loving monster. Of course He will provide us a beer volcano when we enter eternity.

I understand that but would feel better if the promise was documented in some reveled text or another.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 06:22 am
@Olivier5,
A smile can be voted down, now?

Here's a little series of smileys, for the dogs to bite:

Laughing
Very Happy
Smile
Wink
Cool
Razz
Twisted Evil
Mr. Green
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 09:38 am
@Miller,
Quote:

Secular Jews don't believe in anything that's religious.


They are Jews in name only. Just as there are Christians in name only. Those are just members of 'social clubs'. I was ignoring them as irrelevant here.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 09:56 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
They are Jews in name only. Just as there are Christians in name only


All Christians are Christians in name only. There is nothing other than makes you a Christian other than the fact you call yourself a Christian.

I know people who wouldn't consider you a Christian.. but they don't have the right to judge you. If you say you are a Christian, then that is good enough for me.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:10 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
They are Jews in name only. Just as there are Christians in name only


All Christians are Christians in name only. There is nothing other than makes you a Christian other than the fact you call yourself a Christian.

I know people who wouldn't consider you a Christian.. but they don't have the right to judge you. If you say you are a Christian, then that is good enough for me.



Not so fast pardner. As I read, SS Gestapo had a vetting process of tracing non-Jewish ancestry back a few hundred years. The proof was Baptismal papers. Churches maintained decent records for centuries. So, one is only a Christian is one is baptized. Then again, in my paranoid opinion, many a Jewish baby has been baptized by a caring nurse, to prevent the baby getting deathly sick and then languishing in limbo (I think eminent domain closed limbo some time back).
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:12 am
@Foofie,
I wonder if leadfoot could produce baptismal papers.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:41 am
@Foofie,
Quote:


All Christians are Christians in name only. There is nothing other than makes you a Christian other than the fact you call yourself a Christian.

I know people who wouldn't consider you a Christian.. but they don't have the right to judge you. If you say you are a Christian, then that is good enough for me.

Actually I don't call myself a Christian but you are so right about others not considering me one. I've been called much worse :-)

But isn't it kind of naive to take everyone's word for what they are? Do you believe everything everyone tells you?

Besides, Everyone has the right and freedom to judge anyone. In fact, you can't stop yourself from doing it. What matters is the wisdom with which you judge.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:58 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
But isn't it kind of naive to take everyone's word for what they are? Do you believe everything everyone tells you?


If you don't take their word for it, how do you measure if someone is a Christian or not?

It isn't a matter of believe or not believe. I am arguing that by definition, someone who calls themselves a "Christian" is in fact a Christian. There is no other way to separate Christian from non-Christian (unless we take a vote).
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:21 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If you don't take their word for it, how do you measure if someone is a Christian or not?

It isn't a matter of believe or not believe. I am arguing that by definition, someone who calls themselves a "Christian" is in fact a Christian. There is no other way to separate Christian from non-Christian (unless we take a vote).

The same way you might measure someone's claim that they are an electrical engineer. If they don't know in which direction electrons flow, it's probably not true.

As a man thinketh, so is he. The formal definition of 'Christian' is 'Christ like'. If a man doesn't resemble Christ in his thinking, he is not by definition, 'Christian'.

But true, is is not for us to judge a man's thinking. We almost never know enough about that to make a judgement call.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:28 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

As a man thinketh, so is he. The formal definition of a Christian is 'Christ like'. If a man doesn't resemble Christ in his thinking, he is not by definition, 'Christian'.

But true, is is not for us to judge a man's thinking. We almost never know enough about that to make a judgement call.


I'm not going to judge (?) someone by their thoughts. I can't see their thoughts.

What I can see and reflect on are their actions. People can say they are Christian all they want. If they don't act in Christ-like ways, I'm not going to consider them Christian. They can still call themselves Christian. I'm just not going to believe them. Likely wouldn't call them on it unless they specifically wanted credit for some unChristian behaviour
George
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:37 am
@ehBeth,
Amen, Sister Beth!

By their fruits you will know them.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:50 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Judaism doesn't work. It requires a fulfillment of the Mosaic Law. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law at Passover 33 C.E. So Christianity is the legal extension of the Edenic Promise (Genesis 3:15), the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 22:18), and the Mosaic Law Covenant (Exodus 19: 5,6).
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:51 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Judaism doesn't work.


if we go by this

Quote:
By their fruits you will know them.


it definitely works

___

especially the music.

the music really works.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:53 am
@neologist,
Wow. Thumbed down already. Embarrassed
I'm so hurt. . ..
And after I had thumbed the thumber up. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:54 am
@George,
Quote:

By their fruits you will know them.


True that. 'Fruits' include a lot more than just their actions. Their fruits will be a reflection of their thoughts. Even then it can be a tough call without knowing the context. God knows the full context.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:55 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Leadfoot wrote:

As a man thinketh, so is he. The formal definition of a Christian is 'Christ like'. If a man doesn't resemble Christ in his thinking, he is not by definition, 'Christian'.

But true, is is not for us to judge a man's thinking. We almost never know enough about that to make a judgement call.


I'm not going to judge (?) someone by their thoughts. I can't see their thoughts.

What I can see and reflect on are their actions. People can say they are Christian all they want. If they don't act in Christ-like ways, I'm not going to consider them Christian. They can still call themselves Christian. I'm just not going to believe them. Likely wouldn't call them on it unless they specifically wanted credit for some unChristian behaviour


In order to determine whether someone is acting in a Christ-like way, you have to have actually known how Christ actually acted. This is very difficult for a couple of reasons.

First of all the Bible that many people who call themselves "Christians" accept was cobbled together by a council of people centuries after Jesus (if he actually existed) would have lived. There were many people who lost the argument over which documents made it into the Bible. There were many texts that were left out, and many controversial texts that were stuck in.

Second all, even people who accept the Bible has the correct set of texts included, and the correct set of texts rejected, don't agree. They have grossly different ideas over what Jesus was like making the term "Christ-like" very difficult.

Some people think Jesus would have rejected homosexuals as unrepentant sinners.
Some people think Jesus would have accepted homosexuals as followers.

Are you willing to say that people who disagree with you on this issue (and issues like it) aren't true Christians?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2015 01:27 pm
Sounds like Sarah Palin talking about "real Americans."
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2015 09:00 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Judaism doesn't work. It requires a fulfillment of the Mosaic Law. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law at Passover 33 C.E. So Christianity is the legal extension of the Edenic Promise (Genesis 3:15), the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 22:18), and the Mosaic Law Covenant (Exodus 19: 5,6).


Jesus was not proselytizing to the Gentiles. Paul (aka, Saul) decided to proselytize to the Gentiles. The question is not whether Judaism works, but whether Christianity is an open club because Paul got his "epiphany."

If it was meant to be an open club, I can only believe Jesus would have told a Roman soldier that he had something to tell him; however, Jesus remained Jewish his entire life. He was trying to reform Judaism from the inside. And bible scholars tend to think of Jesus as an anti-Roman zealot, regardless of the New Testament claim that God Is Love.

Apparently, Christianity was the second time that Romans borrowed a religion to compensate for their seemingly limited spiritual thinking. The first was giving Roman names to Greek pagan gods. The second was adopting the Genesis story (Old Testament) to give credence to becoming a follower of Jesus (originally all Jews).

In my opinion, if one reads the New Testament one reads, "the multitudes rejoiced when Jesus entered Jerusalem." Now who were the multitudes in Jerusalem - yep, Jews. Only Jews. So, again in my opinion, by the time that Christianity was chocked full of Gentiles, one can more honestly say that Jews did not reject Christ, but rejected Gentiles (aka, not wanting to rub elbows with them). In other words, while Jews had to be literate (in the Hebrew writings) to be a Jew, they were now supposed to be co-religionists of a bunch of illiterate ex-pagans? Let's be real!
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2015 09:36 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
In my opinion, if one reads the New Testament one reads, "the multitudes rejoiced when Jesus entered Jerusalem." Now who were the multitudes in Jerusalem - yep, Jews. Only Jews. So, again in my opinion, by the time that Christianity was chocked full of Gentiles, one can more honestly say that Jews did not reject Christ, but rejected Gentiles (aka, not wanting to rub elbows with them). In other words, while Jews had to be literate (in the Hebrew writings) to be a Jew, they were now supposed to be co-religionists of a bunch of illiterate ex-pagans? Let's be real!

You are playing fast and loose there Foofie. Jesus was criticized for associating with non Jews, whores, Romans, etc. he was quoted as saying that he came for the unsaved, not the saved. Not to say that he didn't come for Jews too.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2015 09:37 am
At least 70% of the US population claims to be Christian. If one defines a Christian as one who acts in a Christ-like manner, can you honestly say, that 70% of the US population, who claim to be Christians, are really Christians.

What percent of the US population acts in what is defined as a "Christian" manner and thus acts in a Christ-like manner?
 

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