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Intelegent life off Earth

 
 
neil
 
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 05:54 am
For human like life to evolve it is generally agreed that conditions similar to Earth are needed. That should be one in a thousand planets, unless we can have intelligent life chemically a lot different than most Earth life forms. Humans have studied chemistry at higher temperatures and lower temperatures and pressures. Somewhat different chemistry for very simple life seems likely, but we have not found chemical systems that look promising, for near vacuum, nor without carbon and water, for advanced life, except computers. In many respects humans are computers with some peripherals built in, so advanced machine beings are a reasonable possibility on other planets, but that is another thread. Assuming intersteller travel is practical for some advanced beings, they can presently be a lot of places where they could not have evolved.

Let's consider where human earthlings could live with rather simple life support and without a very long supply line for most supplies. The planet, moon or asteroid needs to orbit in the habitable zone, with brief exceptions. That illiminates comet type orbits = very eliptical which are outside the habital zone long term and periodically. So the solar orbit needs to be close to round, not too far from the sun or surface ice will not melt and the water will be trapped in icecaps at the poles and/or far below the surface such as Mars.

Too close to the Sun may be ok if the planet keeps one face toward the sun, or the poles have zero tilt like Mercury. Either of these conditions result in a long term temperate zone of small area, but big enough for a few thousand humans. Please comment, embellish or refute. Neil
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 06:08 am
There are life forms on Earth that survive on sulpher plumes emanating from Volcanos. There are life forms that thrive on methane produced in the bowels of cows. There are life forms that survive in the frozen Arctic tundra. It would stand to reason that life would evolve on planets that we would consider "inhospitable" to life. Jupiters moon Eoropa has liquid oceans 60 miles deep. Many planets in our solar system have liquid methane. Carbon is a relatively abundant resouce in our solar system. Therefore, it would stand to reason that life is abundant in the universe though it may not be anything like life on Earth!
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 06:48 am
im a fan of silica based life. it avoids all the limitations imposed by a carbon based system , in that transfer of nutrients can occur by simple adsorption rather than complex chemical rections.

one other ingredient needed for advanced life to begin is a clay substrate in which self replicating chemicals can advance and continue the process of evolution that was possibly started by the introduction of a chemical like RNA. When Rosalind franklin first diwscovered dNA, she speculated that the helix shape , as seen in x ray patterns, was similar , in each layer that the xray pierced, to sheet silicate minerals containing adsorbed elements, in otherwords clays. Research is only now looking at the effects that clays in ancient sea bottoms acted to begin the dynamic process of creating self replicating chemicals which can carry information from one generation to another. Life can occur without the rNA/DNA, but advanced life needs a similar type chemical "record keeper" so that the organisms following can benefit from the earliest information .
None of this about clay min erals is a consensus among evolution scientists , but It has merit as a starting point.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 10:16 am
I sometimes wonder, is there intelligent life on earth. Excuse me I just could not resist. The temptation was just to great.
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 12:42 pm
I don't think that the conditions really have to be very close to those on Earth, although I'm sure you need water, or at least liquid materials, etc. Considering the number of stars in our galaxy, the number of galaxies, and the age of the universe, I would consider it very odd indeed if we were the only life in the universe.

Also, I'm not sure we should be that eager to meet other intelligent civilizations, because I think that many would be much more advanced than we are (I'll omit the argument for this), and I'm not sure that would be very good for us.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 01:15 pm
There are 200 billion stars in our galaxy. There are 200 billion known galaxies. I'm sure there are civilizations out there that would not consider us intelligent at all.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 07:29 pm
But would we think them intelligent? That's my worst fear--we'll squash some weird looking thing and kill their Einstein.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 07:48 pm
The probability of human/alien contact (barring Will Smith movies) is so remote I venture to say it may never happen.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 08:18 pm
Ah, Edgar, in an infinite universe I would never say never. It wouldn't surprise me if they come here and look at us all the time. Given mankinds animalistic nature they probably feel it is best to leave us alone for the time being.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 08:45 pm
NickFun
"may never"
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 08:50 pm
I wonder whether intelligent extra-terrestrials ever lose their car keys.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 09:32 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The probability of human/alien contact (barring Will Smith movies) is so remote I venture to say it may never happen.

Hi, Edgar. The likelihood of meeting intelligent extraterrestrials depends on:

1. If We Go To Them
This depends on whether we ever succeed in creating a form of transportation capable of taking us to the stars, and the density of alien life in the group of stars near us.

2. If We Pick Up Radio Waves and Can Tell That They are Artificial
This depends on the density of civilizations capable of transmitting with enough power, and the fraction of the civilizations which could do it that would wish to. For us to hear such signals, they would likely have to be unidirectional, so there may be a factor connected to the possible number of directions they could direct such transmissions.

3. If They Arrive in Orbit Around the Earth.
This depends on the density of alien civilizations who are capable of crossing interstellar distances, compared to the number of solar systems they might potentially visit.

We don't really know the numbers to attach to these factors. For instance, speaking about them coming to Earth, we really don't know the denisty of starfaring civilizations, but if it is great enough, there would be no reason why they couldn't appear in Earth orbit today. Or perhaps the density is very low and the Earth only gets a visit every billion years.
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Ray
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2004 07:58 pm
I remember reading an article from BBC that some scientists or astronomer have calculated using a computer that there are plenty of planets that have conditions suitable for life, so there probably are life; maybe even intelligent ones.

It might not be possible for us to visit each other given that the speed of light is the fastest velocity in this universe, but there are alternatives I've heard of such as wormholes (folding space, I don't understand how that works or how that can be explained).
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2004 10:12 pm
Ray wrote:
It might not be possible for us to visit each other given that the speed of light is the fastest velocity in this universe, but there are alternatives I've heard of such as wormholes (folding space, I don't understand how that works or how that can be explained).

Relativistic time dilation permits the space voyager to travel any distance in as short a time as he likes, if he can get close enough to the speed of light. His transit time from the viewpoint of an observer, though, such as someone at the point of origin or the destination, will be at least as long in time as the distance in light years.
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BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2004 10:38 pm
There is a famous work of Science Fiction that touches on this subject:
"The Dragon's Egg" by Robert Forward; a scientist with the Lawrence Livermore Research Lab, in California.

It is about 'life' on a neutron star, as encountered by an exploratory team from earth, and gives a well detailed, and believeble description of what such 'silicon based' lifeforms would be like.

The Cassini/Huygens space craft is virtually as we discuss this, dropping a probe onto the surface of Titan, partly to see if there are any indicators of possible life forms.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/overview/index.cfm
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 03:36 am
There are an infinite number of suns with an infinite number of 'life-bearing' planets, so the chances of other LIFE in the Universe is... well... infinite.





Meanwhile the search for intelligence here on Earth goes on.
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